Battery charger only charging one bank?

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Re: Battery charger only charging one bank?

Postby BB marine on Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:46 am

Stwendl,
I agree with all of your explanation. You are correct "input for charging relay" either connection can be the input. My explanation was not correctly stated. My meaning was the alternator output should go to the cranking battery ( charge source).From cranking battery the terminal connections to the relays would be the" Input or higher voltage" to activate the relays to close and parallel the thruster and house batteries. You are correct that the solar output connected to the house battery could possibly raise the voltage high enough to close the relay and parallel to the cranking battery. I don't have a solar panel so I'm not sure if the refrigerator is on if the solar would be capable of charging the house battery to a voltage high enough to close the relay. I don't know but possible.

snydzy wrote: I have seen my house bank @12.2V connect with a fully charged start battery because the ACR senses a charge voltage from the solar panel...not good! Additionally I don’t see the sense of having a 3 bank battery charger when the ACRs are going to combine the batteries into 1 large bank. Blue Seas suggests a relay to disconnect the ACRs when this becomes problematic.... mostly because as 1 bank, the charger may keep some fully charged batteries in absorption mode longer than needed as the other batteries catch up....


I didn't read this until after posting my first post. This makes great sense. I never liked the fact that I have a 3 bank charger but once the voltage gets to the thresh hold value the relays close and three output is essentially going to four batteries in parallel. The relay disconnect is a good idea.
Brian Brown
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Re: Battery charger only charging one bank?

Postby stwendl on Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:04 pm

just wet back to my boat that is on shore charge. Sure enough the ACRs are closed. I think someone mentioned that the factory now puts in single bank chargers due to the fact that ACRs are in. In this case, due the specs of the ACRs we really have just one bank of 4 batteries in parallel as the ACRs combine if they see on any input 13.6v for more than 30 secs, 13.0v for more than 90 seconds. And they open at 12.35V when below for more than 10 secs, or 12.75V for more than 30 secs. If you have solar panels, you most likely have have more than 12.75 on house, which keeps the connection to the engine and thruster batteries connected all times. During night, on the hook and no generator or engine running, the batteries are most likely separated which serves the purpose of not discharging the starter battery with house loads. During the day, if your consumption is high enough even with solar on, eventually battery voltage may go below the ACR open voltage protecting your engine and thruster batteries as intended.

With all the batteries in parallel for most of the time there is a problem if the battery types are not the same. In my case I have 2 house batts and one thruster battery DC27MF 890MCA deep cycle battery and one 27SM-8MF 1000CCA starter battery.
Haven't evaluated what this does when they are parallel most of the times.

Ideally, you want a smart charger for each bank that is fed either by shore power/generator or engine alternator. So technically we just need a 110/12v powersupply feeding into the 3 bank charger where the powersupply output is replaced with the alternator output when the engine is running. Would need some lockout mode to in case shore power and engine are running.

Alternatively, pro mariner make a "ProIsoCharger" that takes alternator input and feeds between 1-3 banks of batteries with a smart charger therefore eliminating the ACRs. Those IsoChargers come in different capacities and need to match the alternator output. This charger seems to charge batteries in sequence not in parallel, starting with bank 1 first, then bank 2 and so forth before it puts a maintenance charge on all banks. It also seems to perform a function where it provides power to other banks if there is a high demand thusly eliminating the need of a parallel switch that we have in our boats. Haven't seen a spec how much current they can bridge. They do caution that the unit must not be allowed to have starter current go thru it which means it is useless for that function or providing power to the thrusters.

They also have a single bank version which will use the alternator output and apply multistage charging which could be used with ACRs. However, due to the different SOC of banks of batteries, different charge regimens should be applied to extend the life of batteries.

The best way to inhibit the operation of the ACRs is to apply +12v to the SI+ input which can be derived from the LED that indicates that the charger is on.

The desired logic is to have batteries properly charging when power is available, isolated when not charging and paralleled only when needed at certain demands which I assume to be manually induced only. Solution is a three bank charger from shore power, 3 bank charger from alternator, ACRs replaced with parallel switch (perhaps remotely controlled) for short term emergency connection (or ACRs inhibited to be used if you have solar).

I think this summarizes this subject and I will shut up unless someone has some compelling arguments that justify an answer :)
Difference between RVers and Boaters:
RVers move until they reach water, Boaters move until they reach land.
Ranger Tug owners can do both :)
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Re: Battery charger only charging one bank?

Postby Matty on Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:42 am

I am a rookie at understanding the battery charging issues but have a question. Batteries all drained as shore power circuit breaker tripped. I don't believe that was a boat issue but more likely caused by pool pump on same outdoor circuit. Now that I reset the breaker the boat batteries are recharging. I believe in the 2018 RT 27 there are 3 battery banks. Bank one and two (House and engine I believe) are ok. Bank 3 (which I believe is thruster and generator) is not charging and needle is all the way to the left. Neither of those two pieces of equipment will work now. Any suggestions on how to trouble shoot before I have to pull all 3 batteries out to check the terminals?
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Re: Battery charger only charging one bank?

Postby knotflying on Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:28 am

Not knowing exactly what charger you have or relay configuration it is hard to pinpoint your issue. If your charger has direct leads to each bank then check the fuse for the lead to the thruster bank. If you have charging via relays then it is possible that because the thruster battery is below the minimum voltage that the relay is preventing it from being charged. I am curious though as to why all batteries would have drained with loss of power. I could see the house draining if you had items powered up, buy the thruster and engine battery should have remained charged up.
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Re: Battery charger only charging one bank?

Postby Matty on Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:32 am

Good question why all batteries drained. Do not have an answer for that. I will need to keep an eye on that scenario.
After reading how the ACRs work, the undercharged situation and following the wiring I solved it by jumping across the two terminals on the ACR for an hour to get the charge up enough. When I took the jump off it continued to charge so I think I am good to go.

Thanks
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Re: Battery charger only charging one bank?

Postby koedding@comcast.net on Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:18 am

I just had a similar situation as Matty. We dry stack our Cutwater C-26 and have not had any issues with the three sets of batteries draining and not charging until now. At launch, the other day, our thrusters were not working due to almost zero voltage on battery #3, which supplies the power to the thrusters and the generator. We figured after a few hours out on the water, battery #3 would be charged. That didn't happen. According to the Owners Manual, the pair of house batteries #1 and the engine battery #2, are charged by the solar panel at 90% and 10%, respectively. The Owners Manual provides no information regarding charging of battery #3. Both batteries #2 and #3 have ACRs. I suspect that I'd have to have battery #3 checked for serviceability and manually charged. When I got home, I checked the wiring schematic and noticed that there is a thruster battery fuse block. Is it possible that if a fuse is blown or the ACR has failed, that this is why the thruster/generator battery #3 is not charging while underway? If I'm reading the schematic correctly, It appears bilge pumps #1 and #2 are connected to the #3 battery. Is there anything else in the circuit that could have drained the battery?
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Re: Battery charger only charging one bank?

Postby Matty on Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:09 pm

so I don't know why all three banks drained. But I now know why it did not charge. apparently the ACRs have a safety mechanism to not switch over to a battery that is so low. My fix was to jump across the ACR studs so that it would charge up a little. Went back an hour later and took the jump off and it continued to charge as normal. I used battery cables for the jump over. Have to admit I fooled around so much I cannot say why they all drained. I may have switched the parallel over to on to see if there was any impact and then forgot to turn it back. All this was done at the dock so no danger of getting stuck on the water with dead batteries. Been ok ever since.
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