C-26 Thruster Battery Dead

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C-26 Thruster Battery Dead

Postby koedding@comcast.net on Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:37 am

We just had the thruster battery (#3) replaced on our 2016 C-26, which we dry-stack. It was dead and wouldn't hold a charge. We have 150 hours of engine running time and both the engine and house batteries are able to maintain a charge and check out okay. Not that this matters, but in the C-26/C-28 Owner's Manual, the #2 battery (engine) is positioned aft and the #3 battery (thruster) is positioned forward, in the port battery box. However, these positions are switched on our C-26 or the Owner's manual is labeled incorrectly.

Having reviewed the posts regarding batteries, it seems that the post "tatoweb on Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:00 am" is more reflective of my issue. I asked our repair shop (Cutwater Dealer) to make sure there was nothing draining battery #3, since bilge pumps 1 & 2 are wired to the thruster battery. They found nothing wrong. Is it possible that the charger relay is not working correctly, since both the engine and house batteries are getting and holding a charge?
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Re: C-26 Thruster Battery Dead

Postby Red Raven on Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:47 am

Is the Thruster ACR LED lit when the charger is on?
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Re: C-26 Thruster Battery Dead

Postby BB marine on Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:28 am

The fact that you are rack stored. I would assume that the battery charger is not used while the boat is not in use. This would indicate that your issue may be caused from- 1) battery draw when not in use and discharges battery.2) Battery is no longer holding a charge and may need to be replaced. ( I have a 2016 Cutwater and have noticed our house batteries are not maintaining a full charge anymore and may need replaced. The boat was built in 2015, so the batteries are 3 years old. I use the 3 year battery replacement plan and use maintenance free wet cell batteries less expensive). 3) Charge relay not working or not wired properly. There is a spade connector that has to be attached to the Ground connection on the Relay. If it is attached to the remote spade connector the relay will not work. Also if the Thruster battery for what ever reason was low on voltage which from your description it is. The relay will not connect to thruster battery to the battery bank for engine charging. You have to excite the battery with a high enough voltage for the relay to connect to the bank and charge the battery. ( this is the simplified explanation). First is to answer Red Raven question light on working no light its not connected . If battery is near dead or very low I doubt the light will be on regardless.

I would change the component set up. I have all accessories attached to the house battery, auto bilge pumps, everything on board . Nothing goes to Engine battery or thruster battery. In the event that the house batteries fail the bilge and other accessories can be powered with the engine battery by using the cross over switch for emergency.
There are several topic post on Tug Nuts for trouble shooting the ACR relays with good explanations of how they work.
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Re: C-26 Thruster Battery Dead

Postby Cutwater28GG on Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:57 pm

Perhaps the propane solenoid or co2 detectors are wired to the thruster battery
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Re: C-26 Thruster Battery Dead

Postby stwendl on Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:33 am

My pet peeve on the tugs (and possibly cut water) is the setup for charging by either motor, solar or shore.

My shore charger has three outputs and is wired to each battery individually. However, when the shore charger is on, so are the ACRs defeating the shore chargers smart charge profile for each individual bank. The acrs should be disabled during shore charging by means of the inhibit input on the acrs.
Difference between RVers and Boaters:
RVers move until they reach water, Boaters move until they reach land.
Ranger Tug owners can do both :)
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Re: C-26 Thruster Battery Dead

Postby Cutwater28GG on Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:28 pm

agreed I do not like the charging circuit.
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Re: C-26 Thruster Battery Dead

Postby Osprey on Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:11 pm

Stwendl writes:
"My shore charger has three outputs and is wired to each battery individually. However, when the shore charger is on, so are the ACRs defeating the shore chargers smart charge profile for each individual bank. The acrs should be disabled during shore charging by means of the inhibit input on the acrs."

I am assuming here that the charger being discussed is a ProMariner Pronautic 12nnP series (nn could be 20, 30 40 ...). The instruction manual states: "THE PRONAUTIC SERIES ON-BOARD MARINE BATTERY CHARGER INCORPERATES INDUSTRY LEADING TECHNOLOGY, DELIVERING FULL AUTOMATIC AND SEQUENTIAL MULTI-STAGE CHARGING THAT PROVIDES ELECTRONICALLY CONTROLLED CHARGING, CONDITIONING AND MAINTENANCE OF ALL BATTERIES AND BANKS CONNECTED". Pay particular attention to the "ALL BATTERIES AND BANKS CONNECTED". It does not mean that each output can be set to a separate profile or be on a separate stage. During the charger setup the user chooses a profile which applies to all 3 outputs . During charging each output has the same stage voltage at the same time. For example, connection 1 cannot be on a bulk stage voltage while connection 2 or 3 are on absorption or float voltage. If, say the house set is significantly discharged relative to the other banks, the relevant ACR will be open and the house set will draw more current than the other banks. More current because the differential voltage between the house battery and charger is greater. Once the house set is sufficiently charged the ACR closes. The ACRs provide isolation when battery voltages are low and combines banks when safe to do so.
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Re: C-26 Thruster Battery Dead

Postby stwendl on Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:06 pm

I have read that section and it makes no sense that having three separate output intended for three separate banks (of potentially different soc not to mention capacity) are charged at the same regimen. Perhaps in sequence, but not in parallel. Having a multi level charger assumes the levels adjust to the state of charges of that particular bank and do not ghost other banks along forcing a charge that is inappropriate onto a battery. Thusly the ACRs should not be connected either when a smart charger is connected. They do make sense if a simple alternator supplies the charge which is not really good for batteries. Having said that, I admit that millions of car batteries are being charged that way every day. However there is no reason not to apply a bit of effort to treat the batteries gently
Difference between RVers and Boaters:
RVers move until they reach water, Boaters move until they reach land.
Ranger Tug owners can do both :)
stwendl
 
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:13 pm
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Re: C-26 Thruster Battery Dead

Postby koedding@comcast.net on Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:49 am

Thank you all for the feedback and putting this in layman's terms. Since we dry-stack, we are only able to use the charger when we are connected to shore-power on overnight cruises. I would like to think that Fluid Motion had setup the electrical systems on the boat to ensure that the batteries are properly charged by the engine and/or solar panel, rather than by shore-power. Per the solar wiring schematic, the thruster battery is not connected to this charging circuit. Therefore, the only way that it could receives a charge is while we are underway. I'll double check the ACRs.
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Re: C-26 Thruster Battery Dead

Postby stwendl on Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:00 pm

I had an email conversation with pronautics tech support confirming that each bank is charged at the same time and based on the individual banks need

Yes, each bank will have amperage distributed based on what each bank is calling for. The unit will distribute current based on each bank's needs in an effort to have them all top off at the same time.

Difference between RVers and Boaters:
RVers move until they reach water, Boaters move until they reach land.
Ranger Tug owners can do both :)
stwendl
 
Posts: 516
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:13 pm
City: palo alto
State/Province: CA
Ranger/Cutwater Model: R-27
Vessel Name: Cataleya


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