In water winter storage with an outboard

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In water winter storage with an outboard

Postby jagizzi on Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:32 pm

I am wondering how to ensure the Yamaha F200 is not harmed by freezing when the boat is stored on the water.

I see folks with the outboards tilted all the way up into the trailering position and I have some questions about this vs leaving the motor in the water.

If you have decided to tilt it up are you flushing the engine with fresh water after the final use? If so, do you know if that fresh water drains such that freezing is not a problem? It would seem that a fresh water flush would leave fresh water in the system unless the motor was then tilted down in order for it to drain, which then defeats the purpose of the flush somewhat.

The alternative is to leave the engine down and not flush. This would only leave salt water through the system but then I worry about salt water corrosion.

It would seem that the consensus, at least in Friday Harbor, is to leave the outboards up, as that is what I see on almost all makes and models of outboards up there, but I sure would like to know what pretreatments are being completed in that case.

Jim
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Re: In water winter storage with an outboard

Postby baz on Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:58 pm

I've had chats about this with my local Yamaha dealership here at my Edmonds WA Marina where winter temps are moderate but can have several weeks of freezing periods. The dealership has been in business since 1951 and their primary boat sales are for Grady Whites. They are a full Yamaha shop with onsite maintenance shop and parts. For me, this is simply marvelous as they are but a few hundred feet from my boat's slip. :D

Their advice was for winter storage...

1) Keep engine up/raised.

2) Flush fresh water through the engine and allow it to drain in its raised state. The only small amount of fresh water that remains is of no consequence as the important aspect is to have no water around the engine head unit which does drain out when engine is in raised state.

3) Use the flip down bracket to hold the engine in its raised position and retract the two trim piston rods to protect their shiny surface from exposure and rusting.

4) Use gasoline fuel Yamahalube Stabilizer & Conditioner Plus for fuel tank (In my case I used 2x 32oz bottles for 150 gallons).

5) Optionally place engine cover on cowling if engine exposed to heavy rain fall.
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Re: In water winter storage with an outboard

Postby tjiann on Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:38 pm

"4) Use gasoline fuel Yamahalube Stabilizer & Conditioner Plus for fuel tank (In my case I used 2x 32oz bottles for 150 gallons)."

I thought it was 1oz per gallon of gas for winter storage?
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Re: In water winter storage with an outboard

Postby baz on Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:44 pm

tjiann wrote:4) Use gasoline fuel Yamahalube Stabilizer & Conditioner Plus for fuel tank (In my case I used 2x 32oz bottles for 150 gallons).

I thought it was 1oz per gallon of gas for winter storage?


Yes, that is a recommendation. However my local Yamaha shop said I would be fine with just the 2x 32oz bottles.

150 gallons at 1oz/gallon would be 4.7x 32oz bottles (or some $75 for the 5 bottles).
Barry, Gill & (Jake Wire Hair Fox Terrier)
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Re: In water winter storage with an outboard

Postby tjiann on Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:09 pm

baz wrote:
tjiann wrote:4) Use gasoline fuel Yamahalube Stabilizer & Conditioner Plus for fuel tank (In my case I used 2x 32oz bottles for 150 gallons).

I thought it was 1oz per gallon of gas for winter storage?


Yes, that is a recommendation. However my local Yamaha shop said I would be fine with just the 2x 32oz bottles.

150 gallons at 1oz/gallon would be 4.7x 32oz bottles (or some $75 for the 5 bottles).


Thanks for sharing that. Definitely a money saver.
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Re: In water winter storage with an outboard

Postby Brian B on Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:49 pm

tjiann wrote:
baz wrote:
tjiann wrote:4) Use gasoline fuel Yamahalube Stabilizer & Conditioner Plus for fuel tank (In my case I used 2x 32oz bottles for 150 gallons).

I thought it was 1oz per gallon of gas for winter storage?


Yes, that is a recommendation. However my local Yamaha shop said I would be fine with just the 2x 32oz bottles.

150 gallons at 1oz/gallon would be 4.7x 32oz bottles (or some $75 for the 5 bottles).


Thanks for sharing that. Definitely a money saver.


I did a double take on this one and went to the Yamaha site, it states: "Use this product on a continuous basis. 1 oz. Fuel Stabalizer & Conditioner PLUS to every 3 gallons of fresh gasoline. For storage over 2 months add 1 oz of Fuel Stabalizer & Conditioner to every 1 gallon of fresh gasoline." You have an engine worth over $20,000.00, why not protect it according to the manufactures recommendation?
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Re: In water winter storage with an outboard

Postby jagizzi on Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:05 pm

Great, thanks Barry! This seems consistent with what folks are doing but it worries me a bit.
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Re: In water winter storage with an outboard

Postby baz on Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:12 pm

Brian B: I hear you.... but I don't see the sense in 'bucking' the advice given to me by my local Yamaha shop. I did have a discussion with the shop about the amount of Stabilizer to use and referred to the Yamaha site recommendation. They however said it would be AOK to go with the 2x 32oz bottle for my case. Now don't start making me nervous as yes, the engine is at least $20K or more. For another $30 I could add the extra 2x 32oz bottles I suppose and put fears aside. :lol:
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Re: In water winter storage with an outboard

Postby Brian B on Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:18 pm

Back in the 70's FRAM filter company had a saying in it's advertising, " Pay me now or pay me later"!
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Re: In water winter storage with an outboard

Postby jagizzi on Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:24 pm

Barry,

How do you retract the two pistons? I tried this when I saw your original posting but I never got to the point where the pistons retracted on their own. Are you pushing them down manually while running the tilt mechanism or I am just not patient enough when pushing the down tilt?

Jim
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Re: In water winter storage with an outboard

Postby S. Todd on Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:19 pm

Barry:
Aren't you using your boat on and off some during the winter months rather than storing it long term without use, like we do here in the Midwest where we have prolonged winter weather and ice on the lakes? If so, I suspect that is why your dealer is telling you that you need not add the additional stabilizer to the fuel.
Has Yamaha incorporated a drain into the lower "bullet" that contains lower gears and the prop shaft? I know for a fact that Mercruiser outdrives do not drain there and they are open for the exhaust gases to exit. If you leave the drive in the up position and you do not cover them and they fill with rain water that then freezes, which they do, the cost to repair is not cheap.
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Re: In water winter storage with an outboard

Postby ixlr8 on Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:03 pm

I was at my local boat yard today here in Maine, we often see temps below 0dF in the winter. All the outboards were in the raised position and were covered. I will talk with our local Yamaha dealer/mechanic tomorrow and see what they do to winterize their motors.
Jim
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Re: In water winter storage with an outboard

Postby baz on Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:49 pm

jagizzi wrote:Barry,

How do you retract the two pistons? I tried this when I saw your original posting but I never got to the point where the pistons retracted on their own. Are you pushing them down manually while running the tilt mechanism or I am just not patient enough when pushing the down tilt?

Jim


Be patient. With the motor raised and sitting on its metal bracket in down position hold the motor down rocker switch in and wait (in my case I waited at least for 5 seconds and maybe a bit longer) for those pistons to retract; first one will restart slowly and then the second one will do the same. A local R-23 owner who followed my instructions for doing this told me he did have to be patient as I had warned and he was thankful for me having posted that advice. His trim pistons finally did retract as I described.
Last edited by baz on Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: In water winter storage with an outboard

Postby baz on Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:53 pm

S. Todd wrote:Barry:
Aren't you using your boat on and off some during the winter months rather than storing it long term without use, like we do here in the Midwest where we have prolonged winter weather and ice on the lakes? If so, I suspect that is why your dealer is telling you that you need not add the additional stabilizer to the fuel.
Has Yamaha incorporated a drain into the lower "bullet" that contains lower gears and the prop shaft? I know for a fact that Mercruiser outdrives do not drain there and they are open for the exhaust gases to exit. If you leave the drive in the up position and you do not cover them and they fill with rain water that then freezes, which they do, the cost to repair is not cheap.


Yes, I do and will use my R-27/OB off and on during winter months. This week is good even with temps going from 32ºF to mid 40s, sun out, blueish sky and no wind to speak of. It's simply nice to get out even for a short run of 20 miles or so.

I suspect you're right about why my Yamaha shop recommended 2x 32oz bottles knowing my boat use pattern.

All I can say about the bullet drain feature you mention is that my local Yamaha shop 's advice is what I post earlier. I'm satisfied with their advice at this time.

If you look carefully into the engine's top cowl slots for the air supply to the engine you will not that the plastic molding curves upwards from both side slots to form an open tube. This design makes it very difficult for wind born rain to get down to the engine-proper as it will simply swirl about and drain out quickly. We've had some heavy winds and driving rain at my Marina and my boat is bow in with a starboard tie-in a covered slip which leave the raised engine out a bit into the fairway and get rain and exposed to wind. The other day when it was raining heavily I observed how the rain entering the air inlet slots by driving wind simple was shed by the plastic molding with ease.... plus I do not angle my motor in its raise state (it's in the midship steering position) so that rain can only enter the inlet slots when the rain is being driver almost horizontally. I don't have covers yet and I'm on the fence as to their worth as the engine cover costs around $150.
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Re: In water winter storage with an outboard

Postby BB marine on Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:02 am

baz wrote:All I can say about the bullet drain feature you mention is that my local Yamaha shop 's advice is what I post earlier. I'm satisfied with their advice at this time.


What did they say about draining the bullet area? I imagine your don't see temperatures on the water of a hard freeze that could make a solid ice block in the bullet that would cause freeze damage in your area. So you really don't have to worry about that. In areas that do have hard freezes it is recommended to keep water out of the exhaust area/thru hub of the bullet because of freeze damage.After years of working on outboards in the midwest I replaced a few gear case housings because of this. We always recommended storing the engine in the down position. If the boat sat low on the trailer and down position was not possible we would shrink wrap the prop hub area so water could not get into the Bullet exhaust hub (trailer storage). Wet storage in the midwest for outboards and stern drives it was recommended also to keep the drive or outboard down in the water and a bubbler system to keep the water from freezing around the boat along with a full winterization of boat and motor as you have done. You have a unique boating area in the North Pacific. Boating year round in a colder climate would be an experience. It is in the bucket list for me to do.
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