Do you use diesel filter funnel?

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Do you use diesel filter funnel?

Postby rocklobster on Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:20 am

We are receiving our 2017 C28 in a few weeks.

I was curious, does anyone think it's necessary to get a filter funnel to use when filling diesel at the dock? I read that this is a good way to check the quality of the fuel when you are filling the boat but it seems like a hassle to deal with a stinky wet funnel on the boat etc if it's not necessary.

Or is the built in filters enough to catch any problems?

I have never owned a diesel before and want to make sure I do things right.

Many thanks in advance.

Joe
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Re: Do you use diesel filter funnel?

Postby knotflying on Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:03 am

I think it is a false sense of security. The big culprit with fuel is water and then algae . I religiously use FPPF diesel fuel treatment, One ounce per 10 gallons. Seven years, no problems, knock wood.
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Re: Do you use diesel filter funnel?

Postby rocklobster on Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:34 pm

Which one of their products do you used. They have a few different ones.

knotflying wrote:I think it is a false sense of security. The big culprit with fuel is water and then algae . I religiously use FPPF diesel fuel treatment, One ounce per 10 gallons. Seven years, no problems, knock wood.



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Re: Do you use diesel filter funnel?

Postby HappyPlace on Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:29 am

I’ve had one issue with diesel fuel two years ago. Started using Biobor Md and Biobor JF in the tank and haven’t had any problems since then. Could be a coincidence. I’m not an expert but if I don’t have anymore issues, it would be money well spent.

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Re: Do you use diesel filter funnel?

Postby knotflying on Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:45 am

rocklobster wrote:Which one of their products do you used. They have a few different ones.

knotflying wrote:I think it is a false sense of security. The big culprit with fuel is water and then algae . I religiously use FPPF diesel fuel treatment, One ounce per 10 gallons. Seven years, no problems, knock wood.



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Here is the link http://www.fppfsales.com/index.php/diesel-products/marine-diesel-treatment-32oz.html
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Re: Do you use diesel filter funnel?

Postby dclagett on Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:12 am

After taking a diesel engine class last summer I now first partially fill a clean quart jar and look at the fuel. If I see any contaminants or water I am off to another fuel dock. I also will not take on fuel if the marina’s tanks are being filled.

I do not use any additives during the season since I normally use about a tank of fuel every month. Also along with the instructor of the diesel engine class Volvo Penta does not recommend using an additive. When I put the boat away for the winter I do use FPPF since the boat sits for about 5 months.

This is my approach after listening to folks that have much more experience with diesels than I have. There is no perfect formula to assure you will never have a problem with diesel fuel, so pick an approach you are comfortable with and enjoy your boat.
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Re: Do you use diesel filter funnel?

Postby rocklobster on Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:28 am

I like the glass jar idea. How long do you have to wait after your fill it for things to settle out?

What things are you looking for? Little drops of water on the bottom of the jar?

Joe


dclagett wrote:After taking a diesel engine class last summer I now first partially fill a clean quart jar and look at the fuel. If I see any contaminants or water I am off to another fuel dock. I also will not take on fuel if the marina’s tanks are being filled.

I do not use any additives during the season since I normally use about a tank of fuel every month. Also along with the instructor of the diesel engine class Volvo Penta does not recommend using an additive. When I put the boat away for the winter I do use FPPF since the boat sits for about 5 months.

This is my approach after listening to folks that have much more experience with diesels than I have. There is no perfect formula to assure you will never have a problem with diesel fuel, so pick an approach you are comfortable with and enjoy your boat.



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Re: Do you use diesel filter funnel?

Postby BB marine on Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:25 pm

I agree that a funnel is not necessary. Fuel pumps at fuel docks are equipped with a filters that should filter most contaminates. I personally do not sample fuel at the fuel dock before fueling but I do usually check the condition of the filters on the pump. If they are dirty and rusted I worry and take a pass if that is an option. If they are clean and have a date of replacement on them I feel comfortable. In most cases filters clean on exterior mean that they are good on the inside(just my opinion). One example of dirty rusted old filter on a fuel pump that had me concerned was At Hoppies marine service on the Mississippi River. We had no choice but fill up next stop approx 250 miles. I looked at the pump and filter it was rusted and I couldn't read the label on it. It looked like it had not been changed for years. No issues!

This winter I have been doing some fuel tank Modifications in our boat. While doing these I wanted to Calibrate my Volvo EVC so the fuel gauge was accurate. I drained the tank thru a drain port that I installed and used 1/8" Stainless steel tubing to go to the bottom of the tank. I pulled all the fuel out tank until it was dry. I used a Racor water separating filter in line. I pulled fuel from tank thru 2 micron filter. After draining the tank and inspecting the filter there was no water and the filter looked clean. I have put 723.84 gallons in the tank burning 678.84 gallons in 234 hours and no water in the fuel. I have changed both Primary and secondary filters 3 times in the 2 years of owning the boat and found no water in the filter housings and the primary filter insert(cartridge) has appeared to be clean. I have been proactive in maintaining filters and fuel . I guess I have been lucky so far I haven't had any water or dirty fuel issues.

Additives have been discussed many times on Tug Nuts. I was not aware that Volvo did not recommend the use of them. I was told by the Volvo rep that Volvo did not recommend a specific additive and any additive used should not contain alcohol. There are several good additives on the market do research and use advise and reviews. I look for additives that stabilized the fuel, add lubricity for the injectors and water demulsifier. I use PRI D, Does it work ? ???? I don't know but so far no fuel issues.
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Re: Do you use diesel filter funnel?

Postby dclagett on Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:53 pm

I wait just a couple minutes until the fuel stops moving. According to my diesel instructor if there is any water in the fuel it will begins to settle to the jar bottom immediately. I look for pure diesel fuel, a pinkish red liquid that looks clear without any haze or particles.

I rationalize if you can’t see anything in the fuel and if there are contaminants they would be microscopic and the filters should remove those contaminates. I also drain both fuel filters on occasion to see if there is any water or particles. I have never found any water, however I have found a few very small particles. If I found any significant contamination after draining the filters I would install new filters. I normally change the fuel filters about every 100 hours.
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Re: Do you use diesel filter funnel?

Postby NorthernFocus on Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:01 am

Regardless of how careful you are when fueling you will get water in your tanks sooner or later simply by condensation. That being the case it is wise to use additives regardless of care taken when filling the tank. Once you take that step to use the additives then filtering, visually testing, etc during fueling is less value added for the amount of mess/hassle factor. Whatever additive you use be sure it contains biocide. Barring massive amounts of water in the tank, biological growth in fuel tanks is typically the most problematic aspect of wet tanks.
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Re: Do you use diesel filter funnel?

Postby Cutwater28GG on Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:49 am

this is why, its important to keep your tanks as full as possible to limit the air space in the diesel tank - minimizing the scope for condensation. i ususally only do this in the winter when the boat is getting less use.
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Re: Do you use diesel filter funnel?

Postby dclagett on Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:23 pm

NorthernFocus wrote:Regardless of how careful you are when fueling you will get water in your tanks sooner or later simply by condensation. That being the case it is wise to use additives regardless of care taken when filling the tank. Once you take that step to use the additives then filtering, visually testing, etc during fueling is less value added for the amount of mess/hassle factor. Whatever additive you use be sure it contains biocide. Barring massive amounts of water in the tank, biological growth in fuel tanks is typically the most problematic aspect of wet tanks.


I agree that small amounts of water may accumulate in the tank with condensation and additives will help. However after taking the diesel engine class with Nigel Calder and seeing pictures of what happened to him on fueling without checking the fuel before filling the tank, I disagree that visual testing has little value. No amount of additives would have solved his problem that day. The tank needed to be drained and cleaned. That is a mess/hassle.

As I said before there is no perfect formula to assure we get quality fuel in our tanks, it all comes down to what we are comfortable doing.
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Re: Do you use diesel filter funnel?

Postby knotflying on Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:59 pm

Interesting on how one manufacturer may say don't use an additive and another recommended FPPF. To me an engine is an engine. I have the Yanmar and took the classes offered by Mack Boring, the Yanmar distributor in the Northeast. We were told to use the FPPF and nothing else. We were also told to do the diesel in the jar routine. I just tend to go to a facility with a lot of traffic and figure the fuel is good. I just can't see trying to fill a glass jar at the fuel dock and then waiting for things to settle. Won't that go over well at a busy dock.
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Re: Do you use diesel filter funnel?

Postby NorthernFocus on Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:26 am

Unfortunately many training classes either fail to provide context or the audience doesn't hear/recognize it. There is a big difference in the need for caution when fueling at a marina that receives diesel by truck and fuels dozens of boats per day compared to a remote spot in the islands that fuels a couple of boats per week and gets its supply by barge. I don't recall ever seeing a professional trucker or any other driver of a diesel rig checking the fuel out before filling up at a service station. What's so special about fueling a boat? Location, location, location...

In certain circumstances additional caution when fueling is certainly a good idea. Some things that contribute to potential water in the fuel supply at a marina are:
- low volume of traffic
- fuel is delivered by barge
- fuel tanks are above ground

There are many remote places (e.g.in the Bahamas) where all of the above apply. Been there done that. When cruising in such places it's a good idea to not only check for water before fueling but also to carry 5gal cans so you can de-water the fuel before pouring it into the boat. After all it doesn't do much good to simply check for water if you can't do anything about it and must have the fuel. Plus if you're traveling such places you better be carrying multiple extra fuel filters. Because if there's that much water in the tanks at a marina then it's also highly likely that there's rampant biological growth.
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Re: Do you use diesel filter funnel?

Postby knotflying on Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:52 am

Good points by NorthernFocus. I guess if one has no choice but to fuel up at a remote spot with little traffic checking the fuel is a good idea. One thing about the Bahamas, time is of no consequence. :D So letting fuel settle is okay Mon.
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