2019 R29 S Sea Trial

What's on your mind? Anything generic goes here.

2019 R29 S Sea Trial

Postby baz on Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:56 pm

Subject: 2019 R29 S Sea Trial

My future R29 S purchase is subject to a satisfactory sea trial.

Now I'm not new to RT sea trails but as the R29 S is a new RT model for me being longer and wider than my previous RT models I'm thinking about what things I should be thinking about to satisfy myself it handles as I think it should.

First, the sea trial will be out on the PNW Puget Sound and not out on a smooth lake so that I get a real sense how the R29 S handles rougher water conditions.

I will certainly play with docking the boat solo as well.

What are other sensible things you would consider to be looking out for ? (handling, interior comfort aspects, performance, fuel burn, etc)

Thanks... :)
Barry & Jake (Wire Hair Fox Terrier)
SOLD - 2010 R-25 LAXEY
Traded in 2016 Ranger Gray R-21EC LAXEY
Trade in R-27/OB, LAXEY, Hull Midnight Blue
2019 R29 CB Hero Red Est. Delivery Mar 2019
Edmonds, WA
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Re: 2019 R29 S Sea Trial

Postby BB marine on Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:19 pm

I have a suggestion, I seem to be the only one with concerns about this feature. Engine compartment ventilation. It would be hard to get true data on a single sea trial but I would at least take a IR gun along to see what estimated temperatures are in the compartment with Generator running and engine running after a few hours of cruising. I do know that Ranger and Cutwaters with generators had issues with generators getting warm because of lack of ventilation in the compartment. The fix was add a 3" vent to pull warm air out of the sound shield box. The first version was to exhaust it into an already hot engine compartment which was counterproductive. The new fix is to exhaust it out thru a 2 3/4" vent Port rear side on the R29 I looked at. This is the only ventilation in the compartment I found for the 300 HP Volvo Deisel with a running temperature at or above 180 F degrees in a well insulated compartment. A 300 Hp diesel common rail, full electronic along with batteries, inverter , Battery charger, galvanic isolator and generator all requiring cooling, all generating heat. With no passive or power ventilation system present. The question is how does all the warm air escape the compartment? The engine is the power ventilation! It is used to remove heat, compartment odors, fumes, battery gases, at the same time contributing to the heat by radiating 180 F degrees. In my quest with ( 2 footitist ) I have looked at several boats manufactured with diesel power plants and all have Passive ventilation systems and most have power ventilation systems, temperature controlled. : ABYC -Ambient Temperature - For design purposes, the ambient temperature of machinery spaces is considered to be 50° C (122°F) and of all other spaces is considered to be 30° C (86° F).
Volvo : The temperature of the inlet air at the air filters must not be higher than +25 °C (+77 °F) for full power output. During sea trial the air temperature in the air filter should not exceed 20 °C (36 °F) above ambient temperature.
This is what I am seeing: Ambient 90F, compartment temperature ( 6" in front of air filter) 156.6, 66.6F above ambient, 34 F above ABYC and 30 F above Volvos maximum specifications.
Image
This is consistent in all temperature ranges of Ambient. This is was running in 60 F water temperature and 78 F ambient still approximately 50 F above ambient and still not meeting either requirements.
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The data taken is with an added Ventilation system that I installed after discussing my concerns with Fluid Motion and being told "Our engine rooms on every boat built is at least what you are seeing". "There is nothing we will change or plan to change on how we install the engines but respect what you are trying to do to extra protect your boat and engine." Basically your on your own.
I installed a 4" vent in forward section of the engine compartment. 3" exhaust fan moving 150 CFM of air out of compartment aft section. 4 " brings in outside air the 3 " exhausting air outside hull. Both additions proved that a requirement of more ventilation was needed to meet ABYC and Volvo specifications.
Image
Image
This was my method of maintaining compartment temperatures this season for both ABYC and most importantly for me to maintain Volvo requirements for the D3 Volvo engine. After approx 2 hours of run time the compartment temperatures would exceed posted temperatures and I would cruise like this to keep temperatures at a level as to maintain recommended temperatures of ABYC and Volvo. Volvo states that electronic components of the engine shall not see temperatures above 158F and I have recorded higher temperatures then that without opening the compartment up( 158.8 F) and increasing. It is loud !!! This method reduces the compartment temperature by 30 F degrees. I am using this method also to determine how much ventilation is needed to provide enough air to maintain compartment temperature. This measurement is very close to Volvos requirement of 140 Square inch of area for inlet and 140 square inch of area for outlet for ventilation to properly supply air for combustion and cooling for the engine compartment.
Image

Sorry Barry for this long explanation. I'm not trying to take from your topic. If I were to purchase another Cutwater or Ranger or any other manufactures product. I would want a sea trial and compartment temperature would be on my list of things to look at. Based on my experiences of owning a Cutwater 26 other items on the list would be, ability to have enough trim range with addition weight aft, does the boat list in the water, swim platform ( dragging and or submerging while cruising @ 8 to 10 Kts), Is it a wet ride while cruising in a moderate seas ( is there enough bow shear to deflect spray), what rpm do you have to run at to maintain a fast cruise speed and what percentage of load is on the engine for this ( longevity of the engine) along with what is the fuel economy at this speed. I ask this because before buying the Cutwater I was looking at a 30' Sea Ray with twin 250 Hp Mercruisers. The fuel economy was bad 1.50 MPG at almost 35mph and a cruise range of 200 miles. I thought this bad. I want to cruise longer range. In hind sight (no sea trial). I don't get much better then that at 18 mph and not close to the fuel range. If I buy a larger diesel boat I want to see better fuel economy then I am experiencing with my Cutwater I also want to cruise comfortably at 18Kts using less the 70 % load on the engine for longevity.(Is this possible I don't know but a sea trial would help in answering this) Anchor retrieval would also be a list item on my sea trial. Can you retrieve the anchor from the helm. This is not possible in the Cutwater. The locker is not large enough.Does the boat have sealed bulkheads between the engine compartment and the living space? How well does the cockpit drain ( without enclosure )Sorry for the long explanation! I am answering your question as if I were going to sea trial the boat! The R29 is my new favorite fluid motion model. Good for you doing a Sea trial before purchasing! My question to you. Are you using this sea trial to be used as a comparison to other boat manufactures models to see if it compares or exceeds performance and handling characteristics, quality, sea handling characteristics ? What boats are you comparing this Sea trial to? Is it a sea trial of a boat you are committed to purchase and you want to go for a ride in it before you buy it to see what to expect after purchasing it? There is a difference. Good Luck on your sea trial.
Brian Brown
Cutwater 26
PORT-A-GEE
portageelooper.blogspot.com
bkb_marine@msn.com
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Re: 2019 R29 S Sea Trial

Postby baz on Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:51 pm

Brian: Thanks for your very detailed response to my OP. :)

My R29 S will not be having a generator. The space that would be otherwise consumed by a generator will be to my advantage as well as the wonderful access it provides to all the stuff that hangs off the transom. This access to transom mounted gear is awesome IMO.

I will be examining and asking about the fresh air supply/ventilation for the engine compartment... thanks for alerting me to this aspect. I do happen to have an IR temp gun so shall have that with me. If the D4 300HP engine has a turbo unit that will quite likely be the hottest component in the engine bay when the boat is running at speed. I had a Volvo 60R with a chipped engine and there were times when I observed the turbo unit glowing red/orange at times. :o ...but that was a gasoline engine running at much higher RPM and in the range of 6000 to 7000 RPM.

My understanding is that the swim step on all RT models (except for maybe the R-21EC) will be partially submerged in water when the boat runs at 12 mph or higher.

I will be expecting to see at least 1.7 mpg at around 17 to 18 mph and around 2.7 mpg at around 9 to 10 mph for the R29 S.

Anchor retrieval at the helm is on my list.

I will be making a comparison between my 2018 R27/OB which I owned for 18 months and the new 2019 R29 S.

I'm somewhat committed to buying the R29 S but have stipulated the purchase is dependent on me having a satisfactory sea trail to ensure I have no serious issues that would cause me to have 2nd thoughts.

I want to convince myself I can handle the R29 S solo.
Barry & Jake (Wire Hair Fox Terrier)
SOLD - 2010 R-25 LAXEY
Traded in 2016 Ranger Gray R-21EC LAXEY
Trade in R-27/OB, LAXEY, Hull Midnight Blue
2019 R29 CB Hero Red Est. Delivery Mar 2019
Edmonds, WA
baz
 
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Re: 2019 R29 S Sea Trial

Postby baz on Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:27 pm

I had the sea trial today with Andrew. It was a R29 CB rather than the R29 S. It was with Andrew and me onboard and there was a RIB 2.9 installed on rear of swim step.

Weather: Raining, sea condition was 2' chop, wind at around 20 mph with a small current running northwards.

Starting point: The Des Moines Marina, PNW on the Puget Sound.

Summary:
Marvelous ride.
Great stability.
Handled well with port side abeam on windward and wave side
Trim tabs effective at speed and brought bow down nicely
Engine noise (cabin door closed) easily as good (if not better) as the R27/OB. It was a nice low frequency purr.
Engine power was plenty enough. It accelerates the boat very well.
Turning at WOT was smooth with little leaning.
Top speed obtained at just over 3600 RPM was 27.4 mph and with around close to 2 mpg
Can cruise all day at 3200 RPM at around 18 mph.
Toilet seat needs to be a soft lowered other wise it bangs down nastily
Helm needs additional flip down step to allow more height for body to lean out starboard window
Stove is more toward midships and because of the cabin wall set back a curtain can be deployed (not available on R27/OB)
Two full height galley cabinets vs. multiple draws on R27/OB
Cave is voluminous and stern dinette seat flips up to almost vertical compared to R27/OB. Also has a grab handle for lifting.
Cabin isle much much better design and wider than on R27/OB
I heard no groaning or squeaking noises when boat running at 15 mph against on coming waves.
Water noise slapping hull almost non-existent (was some little noises at times) ... but far quieter than for the R27/OB
Fuel burn improved as boat speed went from 14 mph to just above 20 mph
Engine throttle movement was a dream and extremely smooth and easy to control
New black stick on glass clips for attaching outside privacy canvas. Cabin door privacy canvas is now on the outside.
Bow railing has mid height cross bars for first two sections... niceeee.
Steering was reasonable effort and was smooth lock to lock at all speeds.
I thought at first I was unscrewing the wheel as it turned and turned and turned... I asked Andrew what was going on and he said the lock to lock is a bit over 5 revolutions. :o
Ploughing the boat into on coming waves was a delight... the extra 3500 lbs of weight over the R27/OB was very beneficial and the boat just dove in without any hesitation with little no no over bow water getting onto the deck.
The 3 wipers did a fine job clearing 100% of their swept areas. They are also two speed wipers.
Interestingly enough when putting the boat hard over at WOT hoping to catch the wake and seeing how the boat made its way through the wake, by the time I got to the left over stern wake it had almost disappeared....weird. :shock:
Andrew had the Webasto heater running without the engine heater ON and the Webasto kept the cabin and V-berth nice and cosy. I check the cockpit heat outlet and it was pumping out a fair volume of heated air as well. This will be nice during winter time with a full cockpit enclosure erected.
The factory Dinghy is now positioned a bit higher with the dinghy's bow higher as well and this will/would help to make it less susceptible to water getting into the dinghy and/or exhaust sooting.

Overall I was very impressed with this R29 boat and have given Andrew the go-ahead for my R29 S order.
Last edited by baz on Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:29 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Barry & Jake (Wire Hair Fox Terrier)
SOLD - 2010 R-25 LAXEY
Traded in 2016 Ranger Gray R-21EC LAXEY
Trade in R-27/OB, LAXEY, Hull Midnight Blue
2019 R29 CB Hero Red Est. Delivery Mar 2019
Edmonds, WA
baz
 
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Re: 2019 R29 S Sea Trial

Postby ixlr8 on Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:35 pm

baz wrote:I had the sea trial today with Andrew. It was a R29 CB rather than the R29 S. It was with Andrew and me onboard and there was a RIB 2.9 installed on rear of swim step.

....snip......

Overall I was very impressed with this R29 boat and have given Andrew the go-ahead for my R29 S order.

My checking account did NOT want to hear this!! :)
If I show your review to Liz... I think she is going to want a sea trial.
Jim
2018 RT-27 OB Claret Red "Maggie"
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Re: 2019 R29 S Sea Trial

Postby baz on Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:53 pm

Jim: I was VERY impressed with this R29's handling. It felt solid and easily controlled.

The rudder gave the boat very precise directional control. A slight wheel turn gave the desired few degrees to port or starboard.

The length, beam, weight and engine performance gave me the feeling I was in a much larger boat and significantly more boat stability than the R27/OB.

I found it hard to find fault with this boat.

The helm console really does need two Chart plotter screens IMO..... and I've order two.

I did note that when the engine was first started from cold the boat shuddered a bit and there was some body rattles. However, after a few moments this stopped and the engine settled down to a well balanced motion without causing any boat rattling noises.

When the throttle is thrown forward the boat accelerates well and you can feel the extra sudden push... but it's less than what you feel on the R27/OB that really pushes you forward hard with the same throttle movement.

Oh.... and I do love the inward opening door for the head enclosure. There are plenty of towel bars in the head enclosure and while Andrew was ploughing through waves and causing the boat to rock and roll I purposely went into the head enclosure to see how well I could balance standing. The towel bars are nicely position for holding onto with or without a towel on them.

The 4" foam on the V-berth island berth and the same 3" in the Cave was glorious. Just need a comforter and a bottom sheet and all will be super for sleeping soundly.

Visibility is absolutely amazing and so much better than what I've experienced on the R31 (new and old ones). Without a dinghy on the stern you have a complete 360º view of your surroundings.

Very little use of monkey fur and what small sections there are are not as furry as the old stuff. The material is more tightly woven and feels more like the surface of a commercial hard wearing short tuffed (sp?) carpet.

Flooring is covered with real teak/holly and not the vinyl type used on the R23 and R27/OB.

The cockpit Bimini underside is nicely designed with the teak/holly and had a single hatch - looks very posh. :D Surrounding the Bimini hard top is a gutter moulding that can be used to fit cockpit enclosure panels into which I will have King Marine Canvas (Dave) make up for me after getting the boat.
Barry & Jake (Wire Hair Fox Terrier)
SOLD - 2010 R-25 LAXEY
Traded in 2016 Ranger Gray R-21EC LAXEY
Trade in R-27/OB, LAXEY, Hull Midnight Blue
2019 R29 CB Hero Red Est. Delivery Mar 2019
Edmonds, WA
baz
 
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Re: 2019 R29 S Sea Trial

Postby Rocky on Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:24 am

Hi Baz,
I am happy to hear you enjoyed your sea trial! We love our 2018 R29s. I also love how mine handles waves and how it seems to handle nicely at all speeds.

You will enjoy having the 2nd chart plotter. I agree with you - with only one,there is just too much bare real estate on that panel. I had a second one added before I took delivery as well. I love the endless options that having the second plotter allows.

I also have no issue with visibility. I do have the dinghy vertical on the swim step and seeing rearward is hampered, but it is possible. There is another R29s on my dock that has an Olsson style davit http://www.boatdavit.com/Home/Details/2 on the swim step. It holds the dinghy much more horizontal - thus lower with the added benefit of the engine being remaining installed. Obviously there is an overall length penalty.

Enjoy the new boat when you get it!! It is a wonderful boat.

Rocky
Rocky and Tracy Gamble
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Re: 2019 R29 S Sea Trial

Postby ixlr8 on Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:59 am

Barry,
Thank you for the review, I think. I assume you will be taking, and posting, pictures of your boat build like you have done for your past boats. I am guessing that since you are not getting the generator on your boat, that you are also not getting the AC/Heater and instead getting the diesel heater.
Jim
2018 RT-27 OB Claret Red "Maggie"
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Re: 2019 R29 S Sea Trial

Postby baz on Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:10 pm

ixlr8 wrote:Barry,
Thank you for the review, I think. I assume you will be taking, and posting, pictures of your boat build like you have done for your past boats. I am guessing that since you are not getting the generator on your boat, that you are also not getting the AC/Heater and instead getting the diesel heater.


Jim

Will certainly be doing a photo/video shoot gig and will share.
Yes, will have just the Webasto heater. During the sea trial is performed excellently and beyond my expectations.
Not having the Genset means the area it would otherwise occupy frees up that space and it also provides awesome access to ALL the gear that attaches to the transom; rudder gear, auto pilot hydraulics, stern thrust assembly etc.

The storage between R27/OB and the R29 S is not easily compared but suspect the R27/OB has a bit more. However, the R29 S's swim step surrounding the propane tank locker is fully useable which was not really possible with the R27/OB. The cockpit side lockers of the R29 S put the same R27/OB lockers to shame.

As much as I liked the R27/OB's forward saloon with the marvelous stable piston supported table will be missed but the grandkids will just have to settle for the very nice comfy island berth of the R29 S. :)

[EDIT]
As a bonus, Andrew took the time to show me a R-25 (Classic) moored in the Des Moines marina. We slowly slipped down one of the fairways in the marina and Andrew drew my attention over to starboard where a R25 (Classic) was moored stern in with a starboard tie. It looked in pristine condition and Andrew smiled in return and told me it was my LAXEY R-25 (Classic) I had purchased from him in 2009. Woweee.... it looked like a new boat. :D ... and this reminds me to contact the owner of old LAXEY as I had hidden all my paper charts in the port side Nav seat's linings. The owner found them and was willing to give them to me, but I've just not found the time to go get them..... :(
Barry & Jake (Wire Hair Fox Terrier)
SOLD - 2010 R-25 LAXEY
Traded in 2016 Ranger Gray R-21EC LAXEY
Trade in R-27/OB, LAXEY, Hull Midnight Blue
2019 R29 CB Hero Red Est. Delivery Mar 2019
Edmonds, WA
baz
 
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Re: 2019 R29 S Sea Trial

Postby H28 on Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:48 pm

we went from a 25 to the new 29S. really very happy with it. the factory wasn't doing the second screen on the panel when I got mine (well, if I had pushed them probably...) and I'm thinking it would be nice to have a rear facing camera and the second screen........ Chicago waters, especially the river, can get like the 405 during rush hour in Southern Calif....
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Re: 2019 R29 S Sea Trial

Postby Dcsqatar on Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:14 pm

Barry, I am considering a new 29S and appreciate the insight from your research and experience. I was hoping you could help me with a couple of questions. (1) did you consider aft steering/cockpit helm? I do a little fishing and thought it might be helpful then as well as for docking. (2) did you consider an iPad on a Launchport (magnetic charging and holding bracket) in lieu of the second panel screen? I was thinking it might be of value to pop the iPad off the mount and use it around the boat if needed.

Thanks in advance for any info.
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Re: 2019 R29 S Sea Trial

Postby H28 on Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:48 pm

Dcsqatar: I have a RT29S

IPAD: I had high hopes for the IPAD, but unless I did it wrong, it just replicates what is on the main chart plotter, it doesn't give you a true second screen like a second plotter would (again, unless I did it wrong). So, it you can see the chart plotter from the cockpit or berth or head, but then who is maintaining a watch? So, helpful, but not the same as two chart plotters one with the chart and one with instruments or camera view of the rear.

you can have both tv monitors replicate the chart plotter, which makes that IPAD function more or less moot. Again, maybe I did it wrong.

Second steering station: for fishing, I guess, but not needed for docking. You have bow and stern thrusters and a remote control. I have a line off the cleat right outside the helmsman's window. I pull in and secure that line to the dock and then use the remote control capability to keep the boat stable for bow/stern lines. Even backing into the slip this works fine, but it is why I'm thinking of the second chart plotter and rear facing camera. I'd rather secure the boat amidships and use the remotes than secure stern first...simple physics....
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Re: 2019 R29 S Sea Trial

Postby BO-J on Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:10 pm

Here is a a picture of 2016 - R29S that I used ipad pro on.
I used is as second Nav system, have Seaiq on it, iNavX, Active Captain, Garmin Blue charts, also can run software to run Garmin Camara plus GoPro, run weather apps when you have cell service like Predictwind, use internet to lookup weather at light housed and Bouys, also text, email, all that other good stuff. just can't interface with dept sounder or auto pilot unless you connect to chart plotter direct using Active Captain, Garmin Helm. I now have on my R27 OB and could not live without it.

https://1drv.ms/f/s!AlT3FRcFdZ8ahinewYDSG_rKAy-C
John
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Re: 2019 R29 S Sea Trial

Postby baz on Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:13 pm

Well, after my sea trial and giving further consideration to my R29 S investment I'm thinking of changing my order to the R29 CB.

This was the model I did the sea trial in and I have to admit the upper deck adds substantial area for passengers, provides great visibility all around, great for sun-lovers and I know the grandkids would always want to be up there.

I've had the opportunity of seeing the R29 CB at my local marina and the more I look at it I'm finding the upper desk superstructure in minimal looking and does not make the boat look too top-heavy. I was feeling previously that the upper deck's superstructure spoiled the overall look of the boat but that feeling for some reason has faded away now.

The extra weight of 300 lbs is really not that much over the R29 S. I think the extra fun-factor and usefulness covering the years of ownership would be well worth the extra $15K, plus the upper deck is not something one could add later on, so the decision for it needs to made now rather than wanting it later.

I have until mid Jan 2019 to make my mind up.
Barry & Jake (Wire Hair Fox Terrier)
SOLD - 2010 R-25 LAXEY
Traded in 2016 Ranger Gray R-21EC LAXEY
Trade in R-27/OB, LAXEY, Hull Midnight Blue
2019 R29 CB Hero Red Est. Delivery Mar 2019
Edmonds, WA
baz
 
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Re: 2019 R29 S Sea Trial

Postby ixlr8 on Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:39 am

Barry,
Since you don't trailer your boat and you have grand-kids, and family, who love to go boating with you and the kids would love to spend time on the CB... I suspect a decision to go CB is going to be a yes. Is your covered slip high enough to accept a CB?
Jim
2018 RT-27 OB Claret Red "Maggie"
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