Total nightmare!!

What's on your mind? Anything generic goes here.

Re: Total nightmare!!

Postby Ernie on Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:17 pm

Yup
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Re: Total nightmare!!

Postby aculverwell on Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:20 pm

Whether it is a scam or not... this story sure makes me happy that I have a monitoring system that will alert me when the power is out or the bilge pump is running. It saved my batteries last week when the marina tested the electrical system and tripped my breaker-- and I was able to get to the boat and reset the switch before any damage was done. There are several monitoring systems, but I use Boat Command.. which is about $300 plus another $9/month for the service.
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Re: Total nightmare!!

Postby Jeff Messmer on Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:57 pm

First and foremost, we are all very sorry that this happened to one of our customer’s. Regardless of responsibility, we never want something like this to happen to anyone. We also feel for our dealer, Port Boat House, who has received some negative press as a result of this event. We know how hard they work to not only sell, but to also service our customers.

Other than building cool boats and taking really good care of our customers, there are many things that happen behind the scenes to ensure the safest and most enjoyable ownership experience. Here are a few of the steps that are taken prior to our customers receiving their new Cutwater or Ranger Tug. Every new model is built to ABYC standards and then certified by NMMA prior to going into production. Every 302 Cutwater that is rigged at the factory with engines, is taken to the water where we perform a full function test. The discrepancies that are found during our 16 page function test are then corrected before shipping the boat to a dealer or customer.

Regarding the construction of the Cutwater 302. Many outboard boats have an aftermarket pod that is bolted to the transom. The pod on the Cutwater 302 is built in house to our standards and is then bolted and bonded to the transom of the boat to help ensure a strong, waterproof seal. In the event water were to accumulate in this area, we now install a 24/7 fully automatic bilge pump inside the pod as an extra precaution. During our testing we found that no matter how much water was introduced into the pod, it will not fill the boat up with water. We found that a fully filled pod adds 694 pounds of weight to the transom of the boat, and only lowered the water line by 1 1/2 inches. This would be equivalent to three or four people standing on the swim step. It may increase the time to plane, but it will not cause the boat to take on any additional water.

Unfortunately, the owner self-insured his investment and rather than discussing the event with us or with his dealer, he has chosen to contact his lawyers. To date, we have not had access to the boat. We can surmise about the same items that have been noted in other posts, but until we are able to lay our eyes on the boat, any comments would be pure speculation.

As many of you know, we go above and beyond to support our customers and will continue to do whatever is necessary to provide the best ownership experience in the industry. We really appreciate the many emails and phone calls voicing support.


Sincerely,

Jeff Messmer
Vice President
Jeff Messmer
V.P Sales and Marketing
Ranger Tugs
25802 Pacific Hwy So.
Kent, Wa 98032
Phone 253 839 5213
Cell 206 940 0571
e-mail jeffmessmer@rangertugs.com
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Re: Total nightmare!!

Postby Matty on Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:35 am

Don't you just hate it when facts get in the way of speculation.
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Re: Total nightmare!!

Postby BB marine on Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:10 am

Yes, Matty facts and speculation sometimes can change the story. Its unfortunate. Its hard to keep a Non-Bias opinion. When I read the Blog a few weeks ago I was surprised to see a new Cutwater floating upside down (Capsized). I read through the Blog and felt that some of the issues were typical issues when purchasing a boat through a dealer. He thought that he was the only customer. That was a common experience when I worked in the marine industry. Spring deliveries, Salemen promise the world, all the deliveries seem to happen at once. A whole winter of boat sales, everyone wants their boat now.The Marine Industry goes through highs and lows and it is in one of the highs now! Manufactures and dealers try to capitalize on this to stay in business. The down sides to this is the customer doesn't get the service from the dealer that he expects while the dealer is doing his best to try to take care of all of their customers. The other issue the dealer has is the manufacture is trying to keep up with all the orders and trying to build as many boats as possible and Quality Control issues start to happen. Warranty issues increase and customers are not happy about issues with their new boat. Dealers are trying to deliver new boats and spend time fixing problems the manufacturer missed.A few things get over looked and now you have a unhappy buyer. This is typical in the industry.

The next part of the Blog that I had to think about is No Insurance! For me I couldn't financially do that. I can't gamble on 400K of my money. Quite honestly I wouldn't use 400K of my savings I would leave the money in my portfolio and borrow the money and then would be required to have insurance. Why criticize an individual for making this decision? Many people self insure assets. Many carry liability balloon policies and no property coverage. Would the insurance have stopped the boat from sinking? The results would be the same the insurance company would be investigating why the boat sank and the boat would still be destroyed. Some say it is a scam. A scam? Who sinks their boat without insurance? Who buys a new boat and wants to go through all this crap. I feel bad for the guy if it was his fault or not.

The last part of the blog needs explanations.Boats sink but it is not typical. This part I don't understand. Is the owner completely lying about contacting the dealer and the factory. I can't image a dealer getting a call from a owner of a new boat stating his boat sank and not sending someone to the sight right away. I also can't imagine a manufacture that started building a new outboard model and finding out that it sunk and not being on sight for inspection and to find out what caused the sinking. Regardless of insurance. What really surprised me was it was a Cutwater. A company with a reputation of going above and beyond for their customers. If it is the customers fault. It would be a learning experience for other owners as to what happened and what not to do. If it was an issue in manufacturing it would be in the interest of the company to find out what happened so they could prevent this from happening again. Matty, I'm Not speculating I'm just saying give the guy a break, give fluid motion a break, let them get the facts. I thought that Jeff gave a good explanation of the what he knows about the "Nightmare" I read the Cutwater Blog this morning and read the response that he had to Jeffs statement. This is an unfortunate experience for both parties, Buying a boat should be a positive experience, building a boat for people to experience that should be positive too.
Brian Brown
Cutwater 26
PORT-A-GEE
portageelooper.blogspot.com
bkb_marine@msn.com
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Re: Total nightmare!!

Postby MartyC on Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:30 pm

I totally agree with Brian's post. Like Brian, we have been on both sides of boating. We have sold and serviced hundreds of boats and bought several personal boats.

After reading this blog and the one on 'the hull truth' I am amazed about some of the comments, attacks and personal slams directed to Andre. I believe some boaters must forget that there are real people being talked about whether they are boat owners or factory personnel.

We met Andre and his family in Petersburg, AK. We were heading south, on our trip from Anacortes to Juneau and back to Anacortes. They were on their way to Skagway, AK and then to Whitehorse, Yukon. We were already in our slip as they came into harbor and berthed their boat 5 or 6 slips from us. They backed into their slip without incident and secured their boat properly. I was watching because I hadn't seen many Cutwaters on the trip so far. Also, being in the marina business for over 41 years, I have learned to observe the way my customers docked and secured their boats. We walked by their boat to say hello. First thing I noticed was that they had a life raft mounted on the cabin top. Their boat seemed prepared for serious cruising and fishing. Their two young daughters were laughing and playing in the cockpit within a fully enclosed bimini, and there was a strong aroma of homemade bread baking in the oven. Even with the rain, this boat, family and setting would have made for a great commercial for Cutwater showing a family enjoying an adventure of a lifetime. Andre really liked the boat even though he had been troubled with a lot of problems. I told him it would take about a year to work out all of the issues and to get the boat equipped the way he wanted it. They did do a shakedown cruise and even extended their departure date in an attempt to get warranty issues resolved. This family was prepared on many levels for the trip they were under taking, and they seemed to be having a great time on the way. I believe Andre flies helicopters and I think learning to handle a 30' power boat would come easy. I don't remember for sure, but I think they have owned other boats and cruised quite a bit.

We don't believe this is a 'scam' or that they were ill prepared for the trip. I do believe having your 3 month old $300,000+ boat sink at your dock has to be terrible. Fortunately, the boat didn't sink and roll over while the owner and his family were on board. Unfortunately, the owner did not have insurance. Let's not slam the owner because his boat sank and let's not condemn the manufacturer until all facts are known.
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Re: Total nightmare!!

Postby zekeandboone on Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:40 pm

This whole thing smells like a pump out station on a hot Sunday afternoon.
We don't own a Cutwater. We bought a '17 Ranger Tug 25SC at the Seattle boat show almost 2 years ago. We've put 230 hrs on it and never regretted the decision. The customer care provided by Fluid Motion is a big part of that satisfaction.
With Cutwater/Ranger Tug/Fluid Motion coming under fire here, I feel a need to share my experiences.
From the day that Jeff Messmer sent me a Ranger Tug hat for joining Tug Nuts in 2016, I knew this was a company focused on quality and care.
The first day on the boat during our orientation with Kenny Marrs, we discovered the Webasto heater was not working. Kenny made a few calls to Webasto and the team at Fluid Motion. At 6pm Tim and Ivan from the factory showed up AFTER work and stayed until 9, trying to fix it. It was determined that it was bad from the Webasto factory. Next morning, new unit. Just one example.
I've never had any business dealings with Port Boat House, but they seem to go above and beyond as well. I was impressed that they showed up at the Desolation cruise and cooked a bunch of salmon they caught for the entire group. At the Rendezvous this year the Garmin rep was kinda cranky, so Brad from Port Boat House jumped on my Tug and helped me with a software update. He was busy with his own stuff, but took the time to help a "non customer". (He has lousy taste in beer, though)
We have met many new friends from the pool of Ranger Tug/Cutwater owners, and enjoy sharing in everyone's passion and love for these boats. Learning from this forum and attending many of the Fluid Motion sponsored (paid for) events is something I don't think you find much in today's world.
I feel bad for the guy because his boat sunk. Really. We all do, I'm sure. I'm having a hard time with the blame placement in his writings and I await "The Rest of the Story" (Typed with a Paul Harvey accent)
Steve Zedekar
www.stevezedekar.com
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Re: Total nightmare!!

Postby tugnnaweigh on Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:14 pm

The lack of insurance shows a unique thinking process on the part of the boat owner and I imagine that will continue as this plays itself out. The vessel itself holds the answers and likely will be inspected by two or three interested parties. I’m thinking they’ll figure out the reasons for the sinking, perhaps conflicting reasons depending on who the parties are.

In the state where I live sound boats are constantly hitting the bottom due to pinnipeds, I wonder if they are present in this area?
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Re: Total nightmare!!

Postby BradOwens on Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:54 pm

This was reported to be in a lake, so probably no seals crowding on board.
Last edited by BradOwens on Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Brad Owens

A boat is a hole in the water that you pour money into.
It's also a hole in the water that you get happiness out of!
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Re: Total nightmare!!

Postby Pilotnavigator on Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:14 pm

Seems the web site with the blog is down?

My experience with Ranger Tug staff, dealer staff in Ontario, Lefroy, has been exceptional. This has to be a very unusual exception. Unlike a car a boat is an assembly of many different major parts from many companies, bought in limited volume, so that it is difficult to keep on top of the suppliers to maintain a consitant product. Thus a few issues are expected. For me any issue was minor and adjusted professional without any finger pointing to suppliers. A wonderfully professional company,
John -21EC "Wanderer"
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Re: Total nightmare!!

Postby CaspersCruiser on Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:51 pm

Yes, this situation seems to be a nightmare for all involved. Not having insurance on a brand new boat borders on insanity, especially if that lack of insurance included not having liability coverage. Having what may be a design flaw uncovered by an unlikely and unanticipated series of events is what keeps designers and manufacturers up at night.

What impresses me is that Fluid Motion has allowed this discussion and speculation to remain up on a message board owned and controlled by them. Even more so that a senior official addressed the issue in a post.

Hopefully when the how and why are established, we can all learn from this sad tale.
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Re: Total nightmare!!

Postby stwendl on Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:38 am

CaspersCruiser wrote:
What impresses me is that Fluid Motion has allowed this discussion and speculation to remain up on a message board owned and controlled by them. Even more so that a senior official addressed the issue in a post.

.


That speaks for itself. About 20 years ago I bought a new sailboat we stayed on it the first day during commissioning. While taking a shower, we noticed an eye stinging odor. Next day we found out the hot water heater was installed against the wall without the exhaust opening to the outside. A bit longer in the shower and we may not be around. That boats factory never commented on the incident or even apologized for putting our lives at risk. Would have the commissioning process found the problem, probably not.

Let’s wait what comes out of this
Difference between RVers and Boaters:
RVers move until they reach water, Boaters move until they reach land.
Ranger Tug owners can do both :)
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Re: Total nightmare!!

Postby Jeff Messmer on Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:46 am

I had a good conversation with André, the owner of the 302. I apologized in the name of Fluid Motion and Port Boat House for not having picked up the phone sooner. We both agreed, that nothing would be gained by pointing fingers and a long legal battle. The boat will be coming back to the factory. Meanwhile, Andre has offered to take down his website.
Jeff Messmer
V.P Sales and Marketing
Ranger Tugs
25802 Pacific Hwy So.
Kent, Wa 98032
Phone 253 839 5213
Cell 206 940 0571
e-mail jeffmessmer@rangertugs.com
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Re: Total nightmare!!

Postby BradOwens on Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:41 am

Good for everybody concerned! Thanks for the update Jeff.
If I ever decide to trade in my R29 (I love it, so probably never), it will be for another Ranger Tug, and the folks at Fluid Motion are the reason why!
Brad Owens

A boat is a hole in the water that you pour money into.
It's also a hole in the water that you get happiness out of!
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Re: Total nightmare!!

Postby Red Raven on Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:05 pm

Thanks Jeff. Your message made my day. This whole thing was actually making me sick to my stomach. I can’t imagine how Andre and all at Fluid Motion must feel! I feel much better knowing you guys are talking and something will be worked out and learned from all this. Awesome job as always!
Curt and Tracy Johansen
Red Raven
2014 R27
Volvo D3 200HP
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