New to me R25 will not back up to Starboard

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New to me R25 will not back up to Starboard

Postby bigdealsam on Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:28 pm

No matter which way I turn the wheel she backs to port. Just not sure what to check. Any ideas?
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Re: New to me R25 will not back up to Starboard

Postby Red Raven on Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:02 pm

Yeah, none of the RT inboards will back to Starboard due to the right hand turn of the prop. The rudder needs more water flow across it to have an effect. The boat will go a bit to Port while in reverse due to prop walk. To steer in reverse you either use the thrusters or you “back and fill” (meaning, you use short forward thrusts in between your time in reverse while keeping the wheel hard to port the whole time. Hard to Port in Forward means the stern swings to Starboard which is your goal. “Back and fill” also goes by other names such as Standing Turn or Pivot). All single screw inboards (not just Ranger Tugs) are like this to varying degrees depending on rudder size and prop turn direction.

You’ll get used to it. There are lots of YouTube videos on the “Back and Fill technique” if you want to learn more.
Last edited by Red Raven on Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New to me R25 will not back up to Starboard

Postby bigdealsam on Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:53 pm

Red Raven wrote:Yeah, none of the inboards will back to Starboard. The rudder needs more water flow across it to have an effect. The boat will go a bit to Port while in reverse due to prop walk. To steer in reverse you either use the thrusters or you “back and fill” (meaning, you use short forward thrusts in between your time in reverse while keeping the wheel hard to port the whole time. Hard to Port in Forward means the stern swings to Starboard which is your goal). All single screw inboards (not just Ranger Tugs) are like this to varying degrees depending on rudder size.

You’ll get used to it. There are lots of YouTube videos on the “Back and Fill technique” if you want to learn more.


Thanks Curt and Tracy. I took her out for a few hrs today and she did great however I spent another half hr or so backing her into the slip. Real struggle. I'll watch a few youtubes and practice some more tomorrow. Your advice and info is MUCH appreciated.
Sam
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Re: New to me R25 will not back up to Starboard

Postby snydzy on Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:53 am

The backing direction (operating astern) of any inboard will be dependent on whether the prop is a right rotation (backs to port) or a left rotation, (hence, backs to starboard.) This is caused by a paddle wheel effect of the prop trying to pull the stern of the boat in the direction the prop is turning. Because the rudder is behind the prop, the water being moved by the prop passes across the rudder before being drawn into the prop, reducing the efficiency of the rudder.
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Re: New to me R25 will not back up to Starboard

Postby TexasEye on Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:02 am

I practice the "Standing Turn" this maneuver will help understand the vessel's capabilities in tight space without thrusters.

Rudder hard over to Starboard, using power only forward and reverse,make a 360 pivot turn...Now try the maneuver with the rudder to the port and notice the difference in the maneuvers. I use the 1-2-3 count for practice and dead slow throttle (Idle detent)...forward count 1.2.3, neutral count 1.2.3 reverse count 1.2.3...This conditions me to always hesitate in neutral before moving the lever. It also teaches me the effectiveness of forward and reverse at same rpm and count. Also watch the Pivot point change from center forward to center aft during the maneuver. Always use visual references, I use the "No Wake" buoys...

Remember, close quarters maneuvering tabs need to be full up...

RT-25 Classic
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Re: New to me R25 will not back up to Starboard

Postby Scuba Too on Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:49 pm

Yeah it took me a bit to get used to it as well - thank goodness for the thrusters :)

My experience was primarily with sailboats and twin screws before the RT. Sail boats tend to back easier because the surface area of the rudder is significantly larger. Putting the helm hard to will back the sail boat up nicely in that direction. On twin screws it's easy as the props are reversed pitched and cancel each other out.
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Re: New to me R25 will not back up to Starboard

Postby PACA1953 on Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:01 pm

Red Raven, Scuba Too, TexasEYE, and Syndyz,Thank you very much for your insight into this issue. We are in the process of evaluating Ranger Tug for our boating needs. This information is very helpful and I wanted to thank you, even though I didn't ask the question.
Best,
Keith
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Re: New to me R25 will not back up to Starboard

Postby BradOwens on Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:46 pm

PACA1953,
Don't let the backing issue steer you away from Ranger Tugs. Any single inboard engine power boat will have this issue, and with the bow and stern thrusters on the Ranger Tugs, it's easily overcome.
Brad Owens

A boat is a hole in the water that you pour money into.
It's also a hole in the water that you get happiness out of!
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Re: New to me R25 will not back up to Starboard

Postby Red Raven on Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:34 pm

BradOwens wrote:PACA1953,
Don't let the backing issue steer you away from Ranger Tugs. Any single inboard engine power boat will have this issue, and with the bow and stern thrusters on the Ranger Tugs, it's easily overcome.


Yep. As Brad says, not a problem. That’s what the thrusters are for! We love our boat. While this feature of a single screw inboard boat can make handling an older boat without thrusters a bit of a challenge it is completely solved with the addition of the thrusters. You will be the envy of the dock!
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Re: New to me R25 will not back up to Starboard

Postby bigdealsam on Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:36 pm

snydzy wrote:The backing direction (operating astern) of any inboard will be dependent on whether the prop is a right rotation (backs to port) or a left rotation, (hence, backs to starboard.) This is caused by a paddle wheel effect of the prop trying to pull the stern of the boat in the direction the prop is turning. Because the rudder is behind the prop, the water being moved by the prop passes across the rudder before being drawn into the prop, reducing the efficiency of the rudder.


Oddly enough I fully understand your explanation. I practiced again today using the thrusters which made the process considerably easier. Your comments, explanation and advice are MUCH appreciated. Sam
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Re: New to me R25 will not back up to Starboard

Postby Navigator's Son on Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:22 am

Red Raven wrote:While this feature of a single screw inboard boat can make handling an older boat without thrusters a bit of a challenge it is completely solved with the addition of the thrusters. You will be the envy of the dock!


I have found myself always trying to get onto a dock in between 50' vessels, barely any room bow/stern, etc. You name it.

I use the same technique TexasEye mentioned, and an occasional tap to the stern or bow thruster to get the boat to turn on a pivot point in the fairway and slowly squeeze that Tug into the tightest of spaces. The greatest satisfaction is the look on everyone else's faces when they see me bringing my boat in single handed threading that needle. Of course, it takes time and practice to build the level of comfort to do this around other boats, but a skill worth practicing with great rewards in the long run.
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