Auto Pilot Heading Hold and Speed Fault alternating

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Auto Pilot Heading Hold and Speed Fault alternating

Postby baz on Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:29 am

Subject: Auto Pilot Heading Hold and Speed Fault alternating

My Garmin Auto Pilot has started to alternate between Heading Hold and Speed Fault regardless of my speed/RPM. Does anyone know what is causing this to happen ?

The Auto pilot will maintain a heading when engage for heading hold for a few seconds and then a flashing "Speed fault..." message appears, and then this will go away and Heading hold reappears. This continues no matter what speed I drive the boat at. When the "Speed fault..." appears the boat starts to wander away from the heading but the Auto Pilot still shows the heading as unchanging. When Heading hold reappears the boat will then return to the heading.

It all very confusing and I feel something quite fundamental is wrong with my Garmin electronics.

I'm assuming the "Speed fault..." message that flashes up on the Auto pilots controller display indicates the Garmin system has may be lost its GPS signal and cannot determine the boat's GPS speed rather than its water speed.

Any advice would be most helpful.... thanks.

I have contacted RT and they are working with Garmin to see what are the steps to fix this issue.
Last edited by baz on Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Auto Pilot Heading Hold and Speed Fault alternating

Postby Cutwater28GG on Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:16 pm

didn't you have another separate issue with the Garmin freezing/reboot/low volts a few weeks back?
It sounds like there is an inherent issue in the NMEA network or one of the Garmin devices.

might be worth calling the factory and getting a NMEA / Garmin expert to come out and troubleshoot under warranty where the issue issue is?
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Re: Auto Pilot Heading Hold and Speed Fault alternating

Postby Cutwater28GG on Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:17 pm

Gavin - 2012 Cutwater 28
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Re: Auto Pilot Heading Hold and Speed Fault alternating

Postby baz on Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:27 pm

My basic issue is with my AIS 800 not working/malfunctioning. RT techie came to boat on Monday at 5:30 AM and he spent some 3 hrs tracing wires etc and at first blush it seemed to have been resolved. To verify things I insisted we go out from under my metal covered slip and we cruised about for an hour. The AIS at first was working with its Rx & TX showing activity but then suddenly the red LED lit up and the AIS was in error mode and stopped working.

Garmin's instructions for wiring the AIS 800 were incomplete/in-error and RT learned that a white wire needed to be grounded. It took 2 hrs tracing down the proper white wire to be grounded and that was done.... but as mentioned above, the problem is still evident.

It's back to the 'drawing board' with getting Garmin into the loop under warranty to figure things out for me. I told RT I felt 'dead in the water' and was uncomfortable with the electronics not working as they should and I will be hesitating taking the boat out until the issue(s) are resolved.

I'll post back here as to what transpires to get things working properly.

Thanks.... :)
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Re: Auto Pilot Heading Hold and Speed Fault alternating

Postby KennyMarrs on Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:42 pm

Hello Barry,

Have you updated the software recently and if so did you make sure every Garmin device was turned on, including the bridge? I also like to have my ignition on only because it's tied into the NMEA backbone. Garmin just came out with a new update so your software version should be 15.10.

My other thought is it's a setting that needs to be checked. When calibrating the autopilot there is a speed source tab the allows you to select 1 of 3 options. We just need to check to make sure that's set to GPS.

Let me know or give me a call when you're on the boat next.

Thanks,
-Kenny
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Re: Auto Pilot Heading Hold and Speed Fault alternating

Postby Cutwater28GG on Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:11 pm

if you pull the AIS off the network by disconnecting it from the NMEA network do you still get the auto pilot errors?
- im wondering whether the AIS is faulty and its causing other issues on the network?

the other option is, is there another device/connection that is causing multiple garmin devices to crash/hang/error including both the ais and the autopilot. my guess it would be useful to removing items independently and testing if things work or not work as expected with each item disconnected.

ideally it would be great if we could trace/record any errors or messages on the NMEA network at the network level to see if there is something occurring at the time of fault. this would need a Garmin/NMEA engineer.
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Re: Auto Pilot Heading Hold and Speed Fault alternating

Postby baz on Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:53 pm

KennyMarrs wrote:Hello Barry,

Have you updated the software recently and if so did you make sure every Garmin device was turned on, including the bridge? I also like to have my ignition on only because it's tied into the NMEA backbone. Garmin just came out with a new update so your software version should be 15.10.

My other thought is it's a setting that needs to be checked. When calibrating the autopilot there is a speed source tab the allows you to select 1 of 3 options. We just need to check to make sure that's set to GPS.

Let me know or give me a call when you're on the boat next.

Thanks,
-Kenny


Well I will certainly check for the new Garmin update. I'm pretty sure my software is at 15.00 and the RT techie verified that on Monday.

The auto pilot Heading Hold was performing perfectly and suspect the Garmin software upgrade I made to 15.00 has caused some of the Auto Pilot issue mentioned here. If updating Garmin software can cause anomalies for people if not following a strict process etc I see that as being quite serious and something Garmin needs to address in very clear terms.

If I do go out on the waters and calling you as suggested I would want to co-ordinate a specific time for doing this as I don't want to go to the trouble and find you are not available via a phone call. Can you PM me a time for this may be ? Thanks.
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AIS 800, Radio Call Sign: WDK7354
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Re: Auto Pilot Heading Hold and Speed Fault alternating

Postby baz on Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:15 pm

So the latest idea from Garmin is for my boat to be equipped with an external GPS antenna for my AIS 800. I assume this is because they suspect the internal GPS antenna in the AIS 800 is insufficient for holding a GPS location and/or access to the satellites for the GPS info. The external antenna will be one that is attached to the AIS 800 but located elsewhere in the boat. Will post back if this solves my problem(s). If this does not work the AIS 800 will likely get replaced.

RT is helping me with this.... Thanks RT. :D
Barry & Jake-Wire Hair Fox Terrier
SOLD - 2010 R-25 LAXEY
Trade in 2016 Ranger Gray R-21EC LAXEY
Trade in R-27/OB, LAXEY, Hull Midnight Blue
2019 R29 CB NW Edition - IoM LAXEY, Hero Red
AIS 800, Radio Call Sign: WDK7354
Edmonds, WA
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Re: Auto Pilot Heading Hold and Speed Fault alternating

Postby daviddri on Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:26 pm

I have a similar issue on the speed fault. My dealer called the factory and said it could be a result of powering up the Garmin prior to turning on the ignition. I haven't tried this remedy but I do know I often turn on the Garmin prior to turning on the ignition, so it could be an answer...
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Re: Auto Pilot Heading Hold and Speed Fault alternating

Postby baz on Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:38 pm

daviddri wrote:I have a similar issue on the speed fault. My dealer called the factory and said it could be a result of powering up the Garmin prior to turning on the ignition. I haven't tried this remedy but I do know I often turn on the Garmin prior to turning on the ignition, so it could be an answer...


Personally, I don't think that has anything to do with the issue. There are two methods for powering up the Garmin devices and power on Ignition that I've been advise of. The reason for this is to stop the Coolant Temp, Oil Pressure, Total Econ. and Fuel remaining, displays from flashing on & off.

1) Power on the Garmin devices and wait for them to boot up completely. Now select Ignition that will stoop the flashing.

2) Select the Ignition and then power up the Garmin devices and the displays mentioned above will not be flashing.

I was using method 2) but since have resorted to method 1) As is has been more consistent for me.

I guess it's possible that method 1) and/or 2) could be causing the "Speed fault..." but I really dunno about that.

Next Monday I'm having RT come to boat to sort things out with my AIS 800 and this "Speed Fault..." issue on the Auto pilot and will be taking the boat out onto the water to verify that things have been fixed or not.

These electronic anomalies really do disturb me as most people surely (besides myself) rely on them to operate correctly these days. They are complex to resolve and most of us do not have the skills to solve them on our own.... even the specialists have difficulty with the 'problem solving...' because of the underlying complexities in these hardware/software devices. We've reached the point where we are hostage to these electronic devices.....sigh.

Will post back here after Monday's activities.
Barry & Jake-Wire Hair Fox Terrier
SOLD - 2010 R-25 LAXEY
Trade in 2016 Ranger Gray R-21EC LAXEY
Trade in R-27/OB, LAXEY, Hull Midnight Blue
2019 R29 CB NW Edition - IoM LAXEY, Hero Red
AIS 800, Radio Call Sign: WDK7354
Edmonds, WA
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Re: Auto Pilot Heading Hold and Speed Fault alternating

Postby daviddri on Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:53 pm

Understood and I look forward to the results of your testing. I recently had my software updated, so I know it's not that. I switched the autopilot speed source to GPS and that hasn't made a difference. The tech mentioned if "could" be the gateway between the Volvo and the Garmin, but he had never see one go bad before. We did, of course, check for loose connections, but not an issue.
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Re: Auto Pilot Heading Hold and Speed Fault alternating

Postby Boatagain on Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:07 pm

Baz, I agree with everything you said about the complexity of, and our reliance on, modern electronics. It was a terrible feeling in the pit of my stomach the few times my chartplotters have let me down But, just to raise an important point for anyone who’s perhaps new to boating, it pays to remember this well-worn quote from Chapman’s bible on boats:

“The prudent mariner never relies on a single source for navigation...”

We should all make sure our analog compasses are reasonably calibrated and carry paper charts, parallel rulers, protractors and dividers. And know how to use them. I also carry a handheld vhf and an iPad, both with built in GPS, for some electronic redundancy. No surprise that I use a belt and suspenders to hold up my pants. :)
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Re: Auto Pilot Heading Hold and Speed Fault alternating

Postby baz on Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:12 pm

Boatagain wrote:Baz, I agree with everything you said about the complexity of, and our reliance on, modern electronics. It was a terrible feeling in the pit of my stomach the few times my chartplotters have let me down But, just to raise an important point for anyone who’s perhaps new to boating, it pays to remember this well-worn quote from Chapman’s bible on boats:

“The prudent mariner never relies on a single source for navigation...”

We should all make sure our analog compasses are reasonably calibrated and carry paper charts, parallel rulers, protractors and dividers. And know how to use them. I also carry a handheld vhf and an iPad, both with built in GPS, for some electronic redundancy. No surprise that I use a belt and suspenders to hold up my pants. :)


All very good points.... and yes, I do have handheld VHF, iPhone X and paper charts on board with me. Also, the paper charts need updating/replacing every now and then as I'm sure you're aware of. Backups are prudent.
Barry & Jake-Wire Hair Fox Terrier
SOLD - 2010 R-25 LAXEY
Trade in 2016 Ranger Gray R-21EC LAXEY
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2019 R29 CB NW Edition - IoM LAXEY, Hero Red
AIS 800, Radio Call Sign: WDK7354
Edmonds, WA
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Re: Auto Pilot Heading Hold and Speed Fault alternating

Postby baz on Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:38 am

So I took family of 8 people out on a day cruise yesterday. I had ensured all my Garmin devices were on latest software version a day or so ago and in particular the Chart plotter at version 15.10.

I employed the auto pilot's Heading Hold and it worked flawlessly without it flashing a "Speed fault..." periodically.

I also found that my AIS 800 seemed to now be working per the https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-122.356/centery:47.763/zoom:12 web site. Enter LAXEY for a vessel name.

I grabbed a screen shot from the marine traffic.com web site.
https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B1AGnbeumGm7FEB

What I do not understand from this AIS 800 course tracking is a line that starts at my Marina to a point inland (and appears to be close to my house in Edmonds). My iPhone has GPS and wonder if this is at play and associated with the AIS 800 software/hardware in some weird way ? Not likely, but I've seen weirder things in my life. :o

My boat is kept at the marina and is not trailered across land. How can this be ? Could it be the AIS 800's GPS position was very wonky/inaccurate ?

I assume the course line in yellow and green represents the boat's outgoing and return courses.
Barry & Jake-Wire Hair Fox Terrier
SOLD - 2010 R-25 LAXEY
Trade in 2016 Ranger Gray R-21EC LAXEY
Trade in R-27/OB, LAXEY, Hull Midnight Blue
2019 R29 CB NW Edition - IoM LAXEY, Hero Red
AIS 800, Radio Call Sign: WDK7354
Edmonds, WA
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Re: Auto Pilot Heading Hold and Speed Fault alternating

Postby baz on Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:14 pm

baz wrote:So I took family of 8 people out on a day cruise yesterday. I had ensured all my Garmin devices were on latest software version a day or so ago and in particular the Chart plotter at version 15.10.

I employed the auto pilot's Heading Hold and it worked flawlessly without it flashing a "Speed fault..." periodically.

I also found that my AIS 800 seemed to now be working per the https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-122.356/centery:47.763/zoom:12 web site. Enter LAXEY for a vessel name.

I grabbed a screen shot from the marine traffic.com web site.
https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B1AGnbeumGm7FEB

What I do not understand from this AIS 800 course tracking is a line that starts at my Marina to a point inland (and appears to be close to my house in Edmonds). My iPhone has GPS and wonder if this is at play and associated with the AIS 800 software/hardware in some weird way ? Not likely, but I've seen weirder things in my life. :o

My boat is kept at the marina and is not trailered across land. How can this be ? Could it be the AIS 800's GPS position was very wonky/inaccurate ?

I assume the course line in yellow and green represents the boat's outgoing and return courses.


I think I know what the issue was that marinetraffic.com displayed as my course track. My iPhone X was with me all the time and it was connected to the Garmin 7612's locally hosted Wi-Fi during my cruise. It must be that the course track was associated with my iPhone's position and not the AIS 800's transmissions ! This must be a 'first' and does explain why there's a course line from my Edmond's marina back to my house in Edmonds. Now this is very obscure and wonder if what I surmise here is correct ? Anyone care to comment on my hypothesis ? I only discovered this morning that my iPhone was still connected to my Garmin's locally hosted Wi-Fi network..... :o

If I'm correct on this, then this is kind of a cool feature that presumably does not require an AIS with Tx capability.... just have an iPhone with GPS capabilities. :lol:
Barry & Jake-Wire Hair Fox Terrier
SOLD - 2010 R-25 LAXEY
Trade in 2016 Ranger Gray R-21EC LAXEY
Trade in R-27/OB, LAXEY, Hull Midnight Blue
2019 R29 CB NW Edition - IoM LAXEY, Hero Red
AIS 800, Radio Call Sign: WDK7354
Edmonds, WA
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