Hit some logs and possible damage to prop and/or rudder

What's on your mind? Anything generic goes here.

Re: Hit some logs and possible damage to prop and/or rudder

Postby baz on Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:34 pm

ixlr8 wrote:Dang, sorry to hear this. I hope it is an easy/cheap fix and you will be back on the water soon. I know you love this boat over the 27OB, but it is starting to look like it is spending more time in repair than underway. Good luck.


I blame myself for this collision. Normally, I'm a 'stickler' for watching and scanning for logs as I cruise as well as the numerous pot buoys around at this time of year. I must have been briefly distracted and blame myself. Things just happen...

The worst dead heads are the ones lurking just below the water surface and difficulty to see. This sort of collision can happen to anyone IMO, so I don't count myself as being a bad lookout. My son who was able to see the logs from astern thought the logs (there were 3 of them in a cluster) were around 4" to 5" in diameter and several feet long.
Barry & Jake-Wire Hair Fox Terrier
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Re: Hit some logs and possible damage to prop and/or rudder

Postby BB marine on Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:31 pm

baz wrote:My stuffing box is dripping at around 40 drips per minute while shaft is not in motion!


If you do not adjust the packing and use the boat at the 40 DPM. I would inspect the engine compartment when running the boat above 1000rpm. It may be ok but I have experienced the shaft slinging water at a lesser drip rate that you have. In salt water that can cause some issues with rust and corrosion as you well know. A few weeks ago I was cruising and saw my bilge pump switch light was on. At first I thought I accidentally hit the switch. It was on because auto bilge pump sensor was activated. I have never noticed this before. I opened the hatch and the shaft was slinging a fine mist of water. I slowed down and inspected packing leakage, it was 9 DPM. I marked the packing nut DTC and turned 1/8th turn. It then slowed to a less then 1 dpm. ( engine running shaft turning) The next time out I checked it after running up to speed . I recorded 2 to 3 DPM and shaft log was running cool.

The increase DPM could be from the prop vibration if damaged but it also could be from the new packing wearing in and the need for a slight adjustment. You will know when you pull the boat.
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Re: Hit some logs and possible damage to prop and/or rudder

Postby baz on Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:53 pm

Thanks... apart from the log collision all the various things I've had to deal with are IMO normal for a new boat. For me, it takes about a full boating season to get things ship-shape and in order, and if nothing else I get to know my boat in personal terms and subsequently know more about my boat's operations and idiosyncrasies. :)
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Re: Hit some logs and possible damage to prop and/or rudder

Postby baz on Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:44 pm

I'm thinking ahead here some....

Let's say there's no visible damage to the prop, rudder, trim tabs, keel, hull, etc when the boat is hauled and inspected.

Given, as I mentioned, a very slight vibration was felt at the wheel after the collision with the logs, what else should be looked at that could explain the wheel's vibration.

Prior to the collision there was absolutely no wheel vibration of any kind at all speeds.

if the log(s) were end on as the boat ran over them and they hit the prop but somehow did not damage the prop or rudder could the prop shaft have been dislodged in some way ? I need to take a look at the shaft connection to the engine and suspect it's bolted. Could the impact of the log against the prop somehow move the shaft and engine just a bit to aft maybe ? I did look at the engine mounts and do not see any shift in their position.

I know I should wait for the boat to be hauled and inspected before jumping to any conclusion, but I'm a bit concerned if the inspection shows no visible damage what else needs to be inspected etc. Engine alignment maybe, shaft alignment, prop appears undamaged but has been pushed a tad amount aft off its splined connection.....(causing it to wobble some).

Thanks.... :)
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SOLD - 2010 R-25 LAXEY
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Re: Hit some logs and possible damage to prop and/or rudder

Postby BB marine on Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:00 pm

Both shaft ends are tapered. The engine Coupling is tapered and keyed and the prop is tapered and keyed (Hubs to shaft). If properly installed I doubt they released from the taper. Regardless of the condition of running gear it would be advisable to do an in the water engine alignment. If there is no viable damage to the prop I would still do a run out of the prop shaft. I have seen props with very little damage, the shaft not bent but twisted. I'm sure the yard that you are having service the boat are fully aware of this. If you felt a noticeable vibration chances are you have a bent blade and all other components are fine. If it was my boat, a prop inspection, prop removed taper and key inspected, runout check with indicator, cutlass bearing/shaft end play inspected, keel extension visual inspected, After any repairs, final engine alignment checked and adjusted if needed.
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Re: Hit some logs and possible damage to prop and/or rudder

Postby baz on Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:06 pm

Per RT advice I will have my diver service (that was already scheduled for next week) inspect the underwater gear etc. They can remove prop as necessary if visibly damaged and can inspect prop blade alignment to some degree with the boat in the water. I'm suspecting the damage is to the prop only at this time. After dealing with any prop damage I will have shaft alignment and engine position checked.

Took boat out today to retrieve some crab pots located a few miles away. Moved the boat at a gentle speed and at about 8 kts could feel a slight vibration/tremor at the wheel. Below 8 kts things seemed calm at the wheel.
Barry & Jake-Wire Hair Fox Terrier
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Re: Hit some logs and possible damage to prop and/or rudder

Postby baz on Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:42 am

Oucheeee.... RT parts directed me to a local shop for purchasing a new prop if I have to. Cost for ACME 2778 19.00" x 21.00" Cruiser 4-Blade Propeller $2,130.00 (plus sales tax - free shipping) back ordered with a 3-4 week shipping delay.

Sure hope my prop if slightly damaged can be repaired.
Barry & Jake-Wire Hair Fox Terrier
SOLD - 2010 R-25 LAXEY
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Re: Hit some logs and possible damage to prop and/or rudder

Postby TugScout on Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:56 am

I’ve had great results working with Olympic Propeller in Anacortes. Might be worth giving them a shout.


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Re: Hit some logs and possible damage to prop and/or rudder

Postby baz on Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:58 am

My diver service will b e inspecting my underwater running gear today along with the scheduled periodic inspection for all the underwater zincs.... good timing on my part presumably. :o

I think this is a prudent move rather than spending the cash on having the boat hauled out. My diver service has the ability to check for prop blade alignment to some degree and can remove the prop if necessary without hauling boat out and can send prop off for repairs as necessary.

I checked my Ins. deductible and it is $2,921. :(

If prop is damaged I will get underwater photos of it.
Barry & Jake-Wire Hair Fox Terrier
SOLD - 2010 R-25 LAXEY
Trade in 2016 Ranger Gray R-21EC LAXEY
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Re: Hit some logs and possible damage to prop and/or rudder

Postby baz on Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:07 pm

My Diver service inspected hull and prop for damage this morning.

The hull was not damaged; just one scuff mark that did not removed any of the bottom paint.

Not so lucky on the prop though as it had two adjacent blade tips bent backwards about 3/4". In addition, the prop zinc was completely missing :o :shock: along with its retaining bolt. It's unclear if this missing zinc was as a result of the log collision or if the bolt had loosened and fell off earlier allowing the zinc to fall off. The prop zinc falling off is a common problem on the RT boats IMO. Once the zinc in front of the retaining bolt's head has eroded the zinc can simply move aft and fall off prematurely. My diver service has a 'trick' for avoiding this issue by placing one or more washers inside the zinc's inside base through which the bolt goes through to attached to the retaining component. They say they do this on ALL the RT boats they service as it's a very common problem and they really don't understand why RT does not do this for their customers. :o

The prop will be taken to a local prop shop to be repaired and rebalanced. Their turn-around is said to be quick.

I will post back later as to the cost of repairing the prop.

So.... it was not my imagination about feeling a slight vibration at the wheel after the log collision compared to what I recalled prior to the collision. Even with two prop blade tips bent it was AOK to run the boat slowly at no more than 6 kts as there was no wheel vibration felt at this speed or below. Faster than this there was noticeable but slight wheel vibration. I'm pleased I had the diver service inspection today and that the prop damage was not too severe. I suspect the prop will be returned within a few days.

All my underwater zincs were in good shape with trim tab zincs at 65%, thruster zincs at 75% and transom plate zinc at 95%.... and of course the prop zinc a total loss.

Shared photo Album showing the prop damage - https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B1AGq6kMgGPRiuz
Last edited by baz on Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:13 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Barry & Jake-Wire Hair Fox Terrier
SOLD - 2010 R-25 LAXEY
Trade in 2016 Ranger Gray R-21EC LAXEY
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Re: Hit some logs and possible damage to prop and/or rudder

Postby ixlr8 on Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:48 pm

Barry,
Glad to see it was something simple and should be easy to fix. A quick bend back and re-balance is a whole lot nicer than replacing the prop. Be interesting to see how it runs when you get the prop back on it. Hopefully turn around will be quick.
Jim
2018 RT-27 OB Claret Red "Maggie"
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Re: Hit some logs and possible damage to prop and/or rudder

Postby baz on Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:52 pm

Jim:

My grandson and granddaughter are my lookouts, so when they next come to the boat I will ask them to bring their checkbooks. They will be wowed when they see the bent prop blade tips. :lol:
Barry & Jake-Wire Hair Fox Terrier
SOLD - 2010 R-25 LAXEY
Trade in 2016 Ranger Gray R-21EC LAXEY
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Re: Hit some logs and possible damage to prop and/or rudder

Postby stwendl on Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:00 pm

I wonder if a prop cage or shroud would be helpful to prevent not only the damage to the prop but also damage to objects in the water by the prop. Not to mention the increased thrust by adding a duct/shroud
Difference between RVers and Boaters:
RVers move until they reach water, Boaters move until they reach land.
Ranger Tug owners can do both :)
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Re: Hit some logs and possible damage to prop and/or rudder

Postby Cutwater28GG on Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:33 pm

ive had the prop zinc fall off before, my current diver does a good job of avoiding this. I also have a very large divers dream (big zinc plate) mounted to the stern which does protect a bunch of the corrosion should this happen.

good news on re-faring the current prop: hopefully more cost effective than replacing with a new one!

I think the hull design of the semi displacement cut28 does a pretty good job of protecting the prop compared to an outboard application or perhaps the hull shape of the cut30 which i think is flatter and more of a planing hull?
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Re: Hit some logs and possible damage to prop and/or rudder

Postby baz on Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:42 pm

Of all the underwater zincs I'm of the opinion the prop zinc is the most active. It's large and erodes quicker than any other underwater zinc. For it to fall off concerns me because of this.

In my case here, the complete prop zinc AND its retaining bolt were missing. This after having the new boat for just 3 months being in the water all the time. I have to assume the retaining bolt loosened allowing the zinc to slide off. The retaining bolt has blue loctite so it should not loosen IMO.

Once the zinc material around the retaining bolt head erodes the zinc can simply slide backwards and falls off.
Barry & Jake-Wire Hair Fox Terrier
SOLD - 2010 R-25 LAXEY
Trade in 2016 Ranger Gray R-21EC LAXEY
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2019 R29 CB NW Edition - IoM LAXEY, Hero Red
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Edmonds, WA
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