Failed Oil Analysis - What Would You Do?

[idratherbeboating]

I'm 80% of the way into the process to purchase a 2009 R25 with Cummins 150 and just got some bad news. Boat is well maintained, owners clearly loved it, sea trial and survey went well. Only obvious issue was that it was hard starting in the cold and we already adjusted the price for a new ECM.

My surveyor then went the extra mile and sent both engine and transmission oil in for analysis. Here's the results:
-Crankcase: High levels of iron, Severe levels of water
-Transmission: High levels of iron and tin, Severe levels of copper and water

My surveyor said he's almost never seen a test come back this bad, and the only times he did the prospective purchaser 'walked'. So I'm really curious what you folks in the community would recommend. How much should I adjust the price? Anyone re-power a R25? I'd love to hear what you spent or what your experience was. Or is this a sign and I should just walk away entirely?

[knotflying]

I would be more concerned with the water. It sounds like the engine compartment may have been flooded, especially if there is water in the transmission and engine. An engine, all in, is probably about $20,000. Not sure about the transmission. You have two choices, walk or have them replace both. There is always a boat for sale. There is no reason to purchase a boat that has doubts from the get go. Everyone will rationalize why the water is there, but it is there and it got there somehow. Not your problem now, so why buy into it.

[Brian B]

RUN, FOREST, RUN!!

[captstu]

The most likely cause of those problems is a combination of a failed bilge pump switch and clogged scupper screens causing water to enter the engine compartment thus entering the transmission and engine.

This happened on my boat, also an R25, But I caught it in time I’ve had the engine and the transmission drain and flushed twice within an hour. Further testing showed no damage, other than to my pride.

Repowering are 25 might be a good idea anyway if you have Cummins or Yanmar engine.

Rebuilding is in the range of $10,000 for flooded engine and transmission. The problem is qualified technicians for older electronic engines are just impossible to find here in South Florida. The local Yanmar dealer, A large respected company I’ve dealt with before, no longer services diesel boats..

You may be able to find a local company that will re-power your boat, but maybe Not, depending on where you live.

Rebuilding or repowering is essential. If your engine was down flooded it will eventually fail, probably catastrophic.

If I were you and I could live with it grief I would approach The present with an offer to pay part of the cost of repowering and promise to buy the boat for an agreed price if he arrange to have the Boat repowered and you arranged to have it re-surveyed after the re-power.

You might offer him an additional deposit of 50% of the repower cost after the repower contract is signed. Once the repower is complete you could contract have The boat re-surveyed and go ahead with the purchase at the agreed purchase price.

In the Boat’s present condition I recommend you.not purchase the boat unless you want to repair hobby.

Stuart Bell
Ranger 25: Shearwater
(561) 352-1796

[BB marine]

First I would ask the owner if he has done oil analysis in the past after each oil change or in between oil changes to evaluate oil condition and engine condition. If he has ask for copies. Your surveyor didn't go above or beyond that is a standard item to check condition of the engine in its present state. There are a few things to consider. When was the last oil change? How long has the boat sat since the last oil change. Where has the boat been , in a building, in the water , on land near the water. Look for witness marks in the engine compartment, storage compartments, if the boat had high water in it you should be able to see some evidence of high water and it would have to be high to get in the engine and transmission. You can have a high water count just from having the boat sit a lot and not run up to temp. Talk to the owner see how he has been using the boat. High iron, copper, tin with water in a oil sample point to moisture in the oil reducing lubricating properties of the oil. It doesn't always mean the engine is bad. Oil samples are taken to trouble shoot issues before they fail a piece of equipment. I work in an industry that equipment runs 24/7 365days a year. We sample oil monthly or when vibrations or noise levels increase. Most of the time it is moisture that is a contributor to this. Oil sample comes back, high water and higher then normal metals. Most of the time it is an oil cooler( exchanger )leaking and water gets in the oil. Find where the water came from, change oil, and equipment runs , check oil thru sampling, if sample comes back good you saved a piece of equipment by sampling oil.

If it was me and I really like the boat, I would ask questions, and work with the owner. Change the oil run the engine out at all rpm ranges, get it up to temp. Have a good reputable Diesel mechanic give it an inspection. Take another oil sample ,send it in and talk to the company doing the sampling. They are great troubleshooters. If the sample comes back good even with just 10 hours on it. The person sampling the oil takes into account the hours of run time on the oil to evaluate the condition. If the owner is selling the boat in good faith I'm sure he would be willing to do this. Even if you don't buy it, someone else is going to and the owner should want the boat to be right . If the owner is not willing to do this walk away. Just an opinion.
Brian Brown
26 Cutwater
PORT-A-GEE

[scross]

There are a lot of used R25 Classics on the market right now. Why start your RT experience with a headache?
Thank your marine surveyor and move on!
BTW the factory has a great looking 2010 on trailer for sale at Yachtworld.com right now.