Sloppy steering or is it just me?

I recently purchased a 2012 R27 and I am its 3rd owner. I've been out in it now half a dozen times for short spins and longer lunch dates. One thing I can't seem to understand is the steering. It seems very unresponsive or maybe just very delayed in handling. One caveat is that I'm a long time sailor who races and this is my first power boat of any kind. I'm used to the boat turning on a dime so I understand my expectations may be unrealistic for a tug designed hull.

I just find myself constantly adjusting the steering wheel in any seaway at most speeds. I also noticed that I can never find the center position. After warming up the motor, I'll revolve the wheel in both directions counting the turns and then put some blue tape on the wheel where I think the center is (roughly 2 1/4 turns from either side). Once underway, that tape seems to wind up in multiple positions when I think I'm on a steady course.

Never had any close calls or anything like that, I go slow use my thrusters when needed. At slow speeds a relatively small adjustment of the wheel will get a steering response but I can't help but think it just feels sloppy. Would appreciate any and all comments / recommendations.

Welcome to powerboating friend. Cutwaters and the Rangers have a tiny rudder compared to the size of the rudder on a sailboat. A technique to use at slow speed is to bump the throttle and then back to neutral. This puts more prop wash across the rudder surface and gives you more directional power. I'm sure you used a similar method on your sailboats. And of course there is no skeg compared to a sailboat, so the boat in effect operates more like a ski boat (wondering around at low speed) than a sail boat as far as directional stability goes. I think you'll find you get used to it overtime and accommodate your steering pattern appropriately. Powerboats with two engines enjoy additional slow speed directional control.


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I had a similar adjustment period as a lifelong sailor going to a Ranger. There's a reason these boats come with thrusters, those little playing card rudders are absolutely ineffective at slow speed.

Keep in mind, these boats have hydraulic steering with an autopilot pump. This means that no matter where you think centered steering is, the minute you hit AP that center doesn't exist anymore, and when you're off AP there's a new center. One way to think about this is that the wheel doesn't move as the AP moves the rudder. This is different than typical quadrant steering in a sailboat.

It took me some practice to steer by hand at speed. At first I was constantly spinning the wheel back and forth trying to keep things straight, but with a little practice I'm now much more stable. Of course, my preferred steering method is to kick back at the helm, coffee in hand, making small adjustments as needed on the AP remote!

Same experience here. Tiny rudder surface area vs. boat mass = sluggish steering. I just added a rudder position indicator (which shows up in the Garmin autopilot display) and absolutely love it. It confirms what I think I've done with rudder position/wheel input, and gives me the patience to wait for my inputs to translate into directional alteration.

Okay, all your comments are lightening my stress some. I thought maybe the hydraulics were having an issue but you all describe pretty accurately what I'm experiencing. Thanks. GF

Let me second Toki's comments.
Once I am out of the slip and marina, I pretty much go with the AutoPilot.
i usually just touch the gps screen to set and engage a target point and before I get there I select a new point I pick a new one. Or if the maneuvering is a little tighter, I just select a heading on the AP and adjust it manually.
The AP steers a MUCH STRAIGHTER line than I can. Especially thru other wakes and crosswinds.

Love it.

When you have a popsicle stick for a rudder on the inboards you learn not to expect too much directional command at low speed from the rudder. Second giving the RPMs a quick burst with the rudder turned hard to get movement at low speed.
Because of the design you can pretty much forget the rudder when backing. I use thrusters 100% of the time for directional control when backing at slow speeds. With reduced visibility you also need someone in the cockpit making sure you are clear when backing. I mostly leave the rudder in neutral hands off until I’m ready to start spinning or moving forward.

It is normal for hydraulic steering to not recover to the same location. With or without Auto pilot. The helm is a pump. Each time you turn the wheel you are moving a vane pump which pumps oil to the steering cylinder. There is a small amount of oil that leaks by the vanes in the pump. This small amount of leakage will change the centering point. Long story short the helm wheel not centering is completely normal.

Your Ranger will not pivot on the keel as your sailboat did. I find the rudder response to be sufficient as long as there is hull movement. Wind will be you worse enemy compared to piloting your sailboat. Once you get use to what wind conditions do to the boats handling you will use it to your advantage. Remember these boats are shallow draft, light boats. Given that they handle good for what they are. A little practice and you will be a pro.

If the helm does not have a hard stop at rest (meaning, it quits moving when you go hard over) then you need to find out why. That can cause the need to constantly adjust steer when under way. Might have air bubble, might be a leak, might be a check valve issue on the autopilot...you should follow up and then you will know.

I also appreciate your pain as far as the sailboat to outboard transition...did the same. Its way different, but you can become extremely precise especially with the thruster. Key is to go slow..

The last few weeks I have been driving pontoon boats with 9.9 hp motors or smaller electric motors. I will never criticize the response of a Ranger Tug to steering input at slow speeds after this experience. I do believe that a rudder indicator should be standard equipment on an inboard.

Once you get used to it, it's no big deal. Doesn't matter what the rudder is doing... It's more important to see what the bow is doing. After all, we've already established that the rudder isn't very effective.
You'll do fine.

Big windshield - small rear view mirror. Good advice on a boat and in life.

Brian explained it better than I can or would want to try. But if you have the hydraulic steering with the autopilot, the steering does not have a hard center. That’s why you can’t mark a center point on the steering wheel that stays stable. Each time you go hard over side to side, it will change. That confused me for awhile on our first Ranger Tug.

As a result of that, it is challenging to know where your rudder is. If you go hard over to one side and come back, you will have a good idea if you do the counting. But in fast responsive movements, that is a darn hard thing to keep track of.

Which is why I finally installed a rudder angle indicator. I had some very experienced boater pals show me how they use their rudder angle indicators, and I concluded it would be valuable information for me in some of the more tricky docking situations I encounter. Now that I have it, I love it. Even when docking is not so tricky.

Gini

All helpful advice. I did notice that the center point of the wheel changes every time I get on the boat. The hydraulics explanation was very instructive. I also noticed that the windage on the 27 is significant. And, I do have hard stops on both port and starboard. Finally, I do find that bump and run works and the bump will give me a bit more steerage but not a ton. At speed, I have no problems because at speed there is usually nothing to steer clear of (if there was I wouldn't be at speed!). Its really just in close quarter maneuvering or docking at slow speeds that the steering can be frustrating, but then that explains why there are bow thrusters. Thanks to all. GF

Slightly off topic....

Has anyone spent any time looking for prop walk in reverse? There should be some. (I had a lot in my old sailboat.)
Frankly, it is barely noticeable. Not much angle on the prop shaft and the hull vee is pretty flat back in the area of the prop.

rpmerrill":3ptc1g9j said:

Slightly off topic....

Has anyone spent any time looking for prop walk in reverse? There should be some. (I had a lot in my old sailboat.)
Frankly, it is barely noticeable. Not much angle on the prop shaft and the hull vee is pretty flat back in the area of the prop.

Click to expand...

Prop walk in my C26 can be my friend. In reverse hard starboard rudder the boat reverses straight (low wind no currant interference) If I need to walk stern port a short increase in throttle in reverse will walk the stern (port). To correct the port walk a brief shift to forward with the hard starboard rudder will correct. I use the right hand propeller reverse walk to port to my advantage. In windy conditions I use the thrusters to help correct too.

The way I have to approach my slip it works to my disadvantage but, like I said I hardly notice it.
When I was a sailor, that was a different story and I had no thrusters.

A followup question... I've read about and watched some videos on prop walk and some on the back and fill method for maneuvering a single screw boat which Brian described. I'll be keeping that in mind and practicing for sure. However, I did notice in those videos the captains spinning those helm wheels quite fast. Can doing that a lot harm the hydraulics given that there is already some leakage past the pump vanes? Thanks, GF

GF To get a good feel for prop walk on your boat, go to a area with plenty of room no wind and little other boat action. Stop boat, place rudder full starboard (right) place boat in reverse till you feel movement,then neutral for a second then forward till you feel movement, continue this and you should be able to turn your boat 360, with little to no fwd or aft movement. Each boat is different and the amount of fwd and reverse to get your boat to turn will be different than others. Basically you are walking the stern to port turning your boat clockwise. With a little practice you will be a pro and docking will be more enjoyable. Bob

First off the back and fill method of spinning the boat around works in either direction. (With only a very small effect from prop walk.) The reason it works is that in forward the prop wash over the turned rudder in Fwd gear has a very large kick. However in reverse there is very little effect because the boat isn't really moving backwards at all. Hitting the throttle in reverse is simply for the effect of stopping the forward velocity that the fwd burst might have created. The rudder is only a bit bigger than a piece of notebook paper and it doesn't achieve much effect even if the boat is moving backwards at a pretty good clip. Try it. (Practice is good, because you never know when a thruster not going to work.)

The prop walk is different. It has been my experience that our boat R-27 has very little propwalk. The angle of the drive shaft is near horizontal and the hull configuration doesn't help. On our boat/prop, forward is clockwise and aft is counterclockwise. The effect of the reverse rotation dis supposed to kick the stern to port. I see very little effect on mine. Try sitting in calm water, rudder amidship, and give the boat a vroom of reverse. There are some good videos on this on youtube... some more technical with prop shaft angle and blade pitch angles. Skip the math and just look at the simple theory that shows water being thrust up against the bottom of the hull on the starboard side in reverse. That, combined with the angle of the bottom results in a push to port. (Except we have a prop that is partially shrouded in a tunnel.)

If you want to see the actual effect and have a secure dock/slip like me, try this. With all the lines secured on my boat I can put the boat in reverse idle and step away from the helm. Go back to the cockpit and look over the port side. lots of flow kicking up and to starboard. Look over the port side and note the calm water. In forward gear all the water is being pushed astern and there is very little effect on either side.

As a fun aside, I have a friend who is a retired submarine officer and USNA graduate. He had never heard of propwalk in his career. Of course, submarines have props behind the hull not under and the hull and the shaft axis is aligned with the boat centerline. I had to struggle to explain and demonstrate any propwalk effect to him on my R-27. Still not sure he believes me.

Hope this helps

Thank you, both helpful. Nothing to do now except get the boat in the water and go in circles. #;-)