Failure to Start problem w/R25

I am having a problem with engine starts on my R25 w/a Cummins Mercruiser 150 engine. i posted a message in late February describing the first time i had this problem of failure to start and hearing a clicking moise like a soleoid trying to engage the starter with no success. i called the local Cummins service center and a tech came to the boat and after turning on and off the key a few times the boat started right up. He did not know what the problem was, but suggested a moisture problem could be affecting the starter somehow.

Recently i started the boat again after about 8 weeks of neglect due to me recovering from an operation. On the first try it started with no problem. A week later I went to the boat to prepare it for a journey to start early the next morning, including washing down the boat to rid it of dirt accumulated after the long period of neglect. The next morning the boat would not start. i tried everything--checking batteries, cleaning terminals, attemping to start again and again for 2 hours...nothing worked. i could again hear clicking noises as if from the solenoid. I again called Cummins and five days later a tech again came out. The weather had been hot and dry for the five days between failure to start and the tech's arrival and while waiting for him i attempted to start the boat. It started immediately.

The tech did not believe the problem was with the solenoid or starter, but he did not know what the problem was as the boat would start every time he tried. He said the engine compartment appeared to be dry and it looked like the engine hatch coamings and drains kept water out of the compartment. However, he noted that the two lazarettes--portside battery compartment and starboardside storage compartment with electrical components inside a plastic box, were subject to moisture and water invading the compartments, and suggested the problem could be there somehow.

While the boat is now starting without a problem, I am concered that this problem could recur while I am out on the water and i might be unable to start the boat when threatened by a storm, creating a dangerous situation. i am hoping you may have some suggestions about what i might do to identify and fix this problem.

Chuck Conway

We had a similar problem, although it was not recurrent. The engine, all of a sudden, just wouldn't start. We could also hear the solenoid, and all batteries read fine. Cummins came out and, after extensive troubleshooting, determined the problem was a bad ground connection in the bilge, just aft of the engine. After it was disassembled, cleaned and bolted down again, the engine started consistently.

Hope this helps.

Bad ground in the bilge near rear of engine was cause of same problem on a local boat here in Clear Lake with 150 Cummins.
Also on my boat with the 110 yanmar.

Also had random starting problem traced to a bad ground after many other troubleshooting efforts turned up nothing. It has been about 2 years since the mechanic rerouted the ground in a more direct route to the starter. No problems since.
He said even a coat of paint on the place where the ground wire is connected can cause a bad contact.

Ed
BAY RANGER

Thanks to all of you. Three responses indicating the same solution leads me to believe that this may also be my problem. While the engine starts now, the ground will be the first place I will look if the problem recurs. Also, i will thoroughly clean it and then protect it from any more corrosion.

Chuck Conway

Chuck,

If engine will not start, jiggle the wires where they are connected in the bilge. They are probable loose. Engine will start. This worked for me several times until I got around to taking all the wires loose where they were connected in the bilge. I then BOLTED them together with stainless bolt and nut with washers between. No problems since.

OK. Deja vu allover again.
I have the same issue, a single "click" from the starter solenoid, but nothing else. I did as recommended above - disconnected the ground strap and the ground cable from the stainless stud, cleaned each with battery terminal cleaner, sprayed battery terminal anti-corrosion stuff on all and retightened using a stainless lock washer and nut. Still, just a "click". I then followed the ground cable to the ground buss in the battery compartment and performed the same maintenance routine. Same result - "click".
My question - if I were to add a ground strap (or cable) to the engine block, is there a particular location that would be better than another? My rationale here is that if the ground strap fails, as discussed in another forum thread, the additional cable would be a fail-safe.
I'm still, and will forever be, making the transition from auto electrical systems with a steel frame (common ground) to boating electrical systems with a fiberglas hull.
Thank you for your input.
Joe

The quickest way to check for a ground cable issue is to take a set of jumper cables for a car and clamp one end to the negative post on the battery and the other end clamp to the ECU case on the port side of the engine - bare aluminum case - or scrape the paint of an engine bolt. Then try a start and you will immediately know if you have a ground issue.

The grounding strap provided, attached to the bolt at the top of the bildge by the exposed shaft, is inadequate. Replace it with a very heavy proper ground cable and it is likely that electrical issues will be better. This was a problem that happened to me. I thought it was the starter... but everything was resolved with a decent ground wire.

I had a similar problem with the Cummins 2.0 engine installed in my R-25 and it also turned out to be the factory installed ground strap was not providing an adequate ground. The Cummins technician resolved the problem by installing an additional 2 gauge ground cable from the port side aft engine mount (using one of the engine mounting bolts) and running it directly to the ground terminal on the engine battery. There has not been a reoccurence of the problem since this parallel ground cable was installed.

So after reading your issues here, I decided to investigate what was on my 2009 cummins. It too was about to be a problem. Bad ground connections and some corrosion existed through out the system. I am glad you talked about it, now I feel much better with the system being properly grounded. Knowing that she will start and run when required is a big plus.
.
Thanks

So, after installing a ground cable directly from the engine block to the battery's negative terminal, still no start.
My next move was to remove and check out the starter and solenoid. My step son was there to provide his mechanical expertise and, as he was tracing the power cable to the starter, it pulled away from the lug. After removing the cable from the battery switch, we performed a "pull test" on that lug also. Off it came! Neither lug on the positive cable from the battery switch to the starter was crimped properly to maintain it's contact and remain in place.
A trip to the auto parts store and new lugs soldered in place provided an immediate start to the engine. Another lesson learned - check both cables, rather than assume the problem is with the grounding system.

Joe: A very happy ending for you... Well done. 🙂

Ah the saga continues. This morning, we were moored at Blake Island and decided it was time to head home. I turned the key, and heard the fuel pump and a "click". Nothing more. Having been on the water since Sunday and overnighting in Gig Harbor, Des Moines and, finally, Blake Harbor without incident, we were somewhat disheartened.
Fortunately, George (R-29 Relief) was there to reach back into the "old-school" tool box. He suggested tapping on the solenoid. I did so and Robyn turned the key. SLO Ranger's Yanmar came to life and we were off to the Port Orchard Marina.
We decided to stop by and pump out the waste tank before going to our slip. Once again, the engine would not start until I tapped on the solenoid. It appears that will be moving to the top of the list of items to address.
Also, another good lesson learned and now shared.
Joe

In performing some net searches regarding the starting issues, I happened across a thread on another forum. It seems several boaters have had starting issues with the Yanmar engines, stemming from a problem with the starter solenoid. I do not pretend to understand all that was written, but the solution seems to be the installation of a relay in the engine room shortening the higher voltage wire. The wires to and from key switch at the helm are used to activate the relay. Here is a link to the thread...
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgr ... Gi1FJUDAnw
Hopefully this will provide some needed information for other Tug Nuts with similar issues.
Joe

The good part is that those are posts as far back as 2005 with the last in 2008, so hopefully Yanmar has addressed the relay issue.