R-27 Outboard: Weeping rust on bow thruster nut

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R-27 Outboard: Weeping rust on bow thruster nut

Postby baz on Mon May 07, 2018 12:24 pm

Subject: R-27 Outboard: Weeping rust on bow thruster nut

My boat was purchased Aug 16, 2017 and has been in salt water since then.

I have regular diver service for checking my under water zincs and hull and hardware condition.

Starting at around 3 months from when the boat was first placed in salt water the diver service has reported "weeping rust on the bow thruster nut".

I was told by RT during my purchasing activity that the new 2018 R-27 Outboard models no longer required zincs on the bow thruster. However, it seems there's some significant rusting taking place as evidenced by photos attached. My diver service has indicated I should ask Ranger Tugs for advice as this 'rusting' will eventually lead to a problem.

So I'll be asking RT, what can be done to arrest this issue from turning into a problem for me ? Is this issue something that is covered under the 1st yr warranty ?

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Last edited by baz on Mon May 07, 2018 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Barry, Gill & (Jake Wire Hair Fox Terrier)
SOLD - 2010 R-25 LAXEY
Traded 2016 Ranger Gray R-21EC LAXEY to Ranger Tugs.
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Re: R-27 Outboard: Weeping rust on bow thruster nut

Postby BB marine on Mon May 07, 2018 3:53 pm

I'm not sure what having an outboard has to do with not protecting a thruster housing with a sacrificial anode. Are you sure there isn't a aluminum anode mounted to the nose of the thruster gear housing? The rust looks like the washer is the wrong material. It almost looks like it is a carbon steel washer, or a poor grade stainless. I would pull the nut, washer and prop off to see what is going on. I would also call side-power and send them your pictures and ask about using an anode. I have talked to them in the past and find them very knowledgeable and helpful when it comes to their equipment.
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Re: R-27 Outboard: Weeping rust on bow thruster nut

Postby johnniethek on Mon May 07, 2018 4:43 pm

Barry,
I would think this would be covered under the first year warranty...and now I am wondering if RT will fix this before they start building my boat one week from today. It sure looks like it could be a significant mess down the road, and something I would like to avoid.

JtheK
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Re: R-27 Outboard: Weeping rust on bow thruster nut

Postby ixlr8 on Mon May 07, 2018 5:14 pm

Our boat has been rescheduled for delivery, again, for May 20th. We have asked for the boat to be on the trailer when we arrive. This is something we will check carefully before the boat is put in the water. Thanks for the heads-up.
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Re: R-27 Outboard: Weeping rust on bow thruster nut

Postby baz on Mon May 07, 2018 6:18 pm

BB marine wrote:I'm not sure what having an outboard has to do with not protecting a thruster housing with a sacrificial anode. Are you sure there isn't a aluminum anode mounted to the nose of the thruster gear housing? The rust looks like the washer is the wrong material. It almost looks like it is a carbon steel washer, or a poor grade stainless. I would pull the nut, washer and prop off to see what is going on. I would also call side-power and send them your pictures and ask about using an anode. I have talked to them in the past and find them very knowledgeable and helpful when it comes to their equipment.


I was told in no uncertain terms that the bow thruster no longer requires an anode as was the case with the thruster assembly that was used previously on RT boats with bow thrusters. Obviously I was very pleased to hear this from RT as on my previous RT boats I replaced the bow thruster anode (cone shaped) on a regular basis to protect the metals in the thruster assemble; knowing otherwise I'd be subject to an expensive repair down the road.

I called RT for advice on this issue, as I probably should have done a few months ago when first being reported to me by my diver's service. Kenny (to my surprise) picked up Andrew's phone and we spoke about this (Kenny's voice is unlike Andrew's :lol: ). It is 100% correct that the bow thruster does not require an anode. RT has reached out to Lewmar about this and is awaiting for a response from them.
Barry, Gill & (Jake Wire Hair Fox Terrier)
SOLD - 2010 R-25 LAXEY
Traded 2016 Ranger Gray R-21EC LAXEY to Ranger Tugs.
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Re: R-27 Outboard: Weeping rust on bow thruster nut

Postby Connerkip on Mon May 07, 2018 7:40 pm

Anxious to hear the results of the query. I know my anode on the thruster gets consumed. Not sure what would be consumed in it's place if the anode wasn't there.

The gear leg is bronze or some other brass alloy. I don't think it would ever show rust. The Allen bolt in the pics looks ok, so I also wonder about the washer. Interesting mystery.

If not required on the bow thruster, is it required on the stern thruster still?
Last edited by Connerkip on Tue May 08, 2018 5:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: R-27 Outboard: Weeping rust on bow thruster nut

Postby Red Raven on Mon May 07, 2018 8:45 pm

I agree with Brian. It looks like a carbon steel washer is in there disintegrating. Have the diver pull the bolt and bring up the corroding material to see what it is.
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Re: R-27 Outboard: Weeping rust on bow thruster nut

Postby BB marine on Mon May 07, 2018 9:58 pm

I didn't know that Ranger is using Lewmar thrusters. I thought they still used Side Power. Lewmar uses composite gear housings so that is why anodes are not needed.
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Re: R-27 Outboard: Weeping rust on bow thruster nut

Postby baz on Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:40 am

I now have on hand a new Prop + Washer & Nut provided by RT & Lewmar under warranty.

I will have my Diver Service remove the old Prop/Washer/Nut and install the new items. Cost for doing this will be reimbursed. I hope this replacement resolves the weeping rust issue.

The Washer&Nut are very small and I hope the diver holds onto them carefully and does not drop either to the deep dark waters. :o

My Diver service says the cost for doing this will be $95 for the 'dive' and $85 for removing the old prop, nut, washer & install new ones.

As an aside, I have also adopted to have shore power connected for only 24 hrs per week while moored at my marina.

RT has been very helpful in dealing with Lewmar and for obtaining the new parts.
Barry, Gill & (Jake Wire Hair Fox Terrier)
SOLD - 2010 R-25 LAXEY
Traded 2016 Ranger Gray R-21EC LAXEY to Ranger Tugs.
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Re: R-27 Outboard: Weeping rust on bow thruster nut

Postby BobnDoc on Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:17 pm

I, too, got pictures and a report from my divers noting weeping rust on the Lewmar thrusters. I reported this and showed pictures to Ranger people at the Going North Seminar. They too were quick to point out the the new thrusters on my 2017 Cutwater 30 cb did not require anodes.I have a call in to Andrew on another matter so I’ll remind him of the rust and hope I’ll get the same response Baz got eventually. I recently got an email from Sam Bisset reminding those of us going on the Desolation Sound cruise to be sure to get our boats serviced and in good order. I reported what I was doing to comply. Sam responded “sounds good”. I guess there will be something else to talk about now. Bob
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Re: R-27 Outboard: Weeping rust on bow thruster nut

Postby baz on Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:26 pm

BobnDoc wrote:I, too, got pictures and a report from my divers noting weeping rust on the Lewmar thrusters. I reported this and showed pictures to Ranger people at the Going North Seminar. They too were quick to point out the the new thrusters on my 2017 Cutwater 30 cb did not require anodes.I have a call in to Andrew on another matter so I’ll remind him of the rust and hope I’ll get the same response Baz got eventually. I recently got an email from Sam Bisset reminding those of us going on the Desolation Sound cruise to be sure to get our boats serviced and in good order. I reported what I was doing to comply. Sam responded “sounds good”. I guess there will be something else to talk about now. Bob


Hmmmm, this post disturbs me as I was thinking my issue was unique due to maybe the wrong washer/nut being installed. Now that you've posted your diver service is seeing weeping rust like mine opens up this issue to more than something peculiar to my boat and more importantly that 2018 R-27/OB and 2017 CW-30 are built/assembled in two different factories. Of course, a bad batch of washer/nuts could at play here.

If you moor your boat in salt water can you say where ?

I'm now of the opinion that I should place the washer/nut I have as a replacement from RT/Lewmar in a glass of salt water and see what happens. :o

Thanks for posting and sharing. :D
Barry, Gill & (Jake Wire Hair Fox Terrier)
SOLD - 2010 R-25 LAXEY
Traded 2016 Ranger Gray R-21EC LAXEY to Ranger Tugs.
R-27/OB, LAXEY, Hull Midnight Blue
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Re: R-27 Outboard: Weeping rust on bow thruster nut

Postby The Doghouse 2 on Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:19 pm

We are on the threshold for getting our R27-OB in the middle of July, so this conversation is important to us. We will be trailering our boat, so it won't be subject to the same intensity of electrolysis boats moored at marinas get, but it will be used mainly in saltwater and frequently moored at marinas for several days at a time. Over time, I suspect this can have its affects.

Baz, when you mentioned placing hardware fasteners in a glass of saltwater, I wondered if a lack of an electrical field might have a bearing on your test. Then I realized I know very little about that whole underwater environment: anodes, electrolysis, anodic, galvanic, white wire ground, green wire ground (bonding), neighboring boats, marina power, etc. So I googled "hot marina".

After sifting thru the "R" rated websites, I found this informative article that's still a little over my head in parts, but it still helps.

www.yachtsurvey.com/corrosion_in_marinas.htm

Bob & Kim
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Re: R-27 Outboard: Weeping rust on bow thruster nut

Postby baz on Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:46 pm

Thanks Bob.... yes, this electrical issue is very complex for sure.

Yea,,, I was also thinking about the lack of an electrical field etc using the glass of salt water would not be replicating the same conditions having the washer/nut on the thruster's prop shaft and in the salt water.

Hmmmm, what to do here.

I think I will still use the salt water glass jar to understand how well the washer/nut will react being simply exposed to salt water without any electrical field present. Let's face it, even the SS items such as rails on our boats being exposed to the weather and salty air do show signs of rust and thus indicate the quality of the SS material they are made of.
Barry, Gill & (Jake Wire Hair Fox Terrier)
SOLD - 2010 R-25 LAXEY
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R-27/OB, LAXEY, Hull Midnight Blue
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Re: R-27 Outboard: Weeping rust on bow thruster nut

Postby The Doghouse 2 on Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:01 pm

Baz, you live close by you marina... take some non-metalic cord (tuna cord) and secure nut/washer with enough lead to drop it off your bow eyelet... same exposure you've been getting... Bob
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Re: R-27 Outboard: Weeping rust on bow thruster nut

Postby baz on Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:35 pm

The Doghouse 2 wrote:Baz, you live close by you marina... take some non-metalic cord (tuna cord) and secure nut/washer with enough lead to drop it off your bow eyelet... same exposure you've been getting... Bob


My thoughts are simply that if the washer & nut start rusting in the jar of salt water that's a bad sign and therefore replacing the rusted washer/nut with the new ones is futile.

If the new washer/nut do not show signs of rusting in the jar I will use them for replacing the current rusting ones. Then if weeping rust occurs within a month or so then I will have to revisit this issue with RT/Lewmar for advice to see what the next steps will be to resolve this issue.

Lewmar had two solutions....

1) Wrong washer/nut installed that were not SS

2) Some electrical anomaly with the motor installation.... see photo

Image
Barry, Gill & (Jake Wire Hair Fox Terrier)
SOLD - 2010 R-25 LAXEY
Traded 2016 Ranger Gray R-21EC LAXEY to Ranger Tugs.
R-27/OB, LAXEY, Hull Midnight Blue
Edmonds, WA
baz
 
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