filling up diesel--R-27

Ask away with your Ranger technical or pre-sales questions. A Ranger rep will give you the official scoop.

Re: filling up diesel--R-27

Postby Chimo on Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:07 am

crowleykirk wrote:OK.. a bit confused here. I'm assuming you've taken this up with Ranger? This is totally unacceptable.
A boat should never come with this problem from the factory, simple as that. Then you guys are spending time and money figuring out something that should be a non issue from Ranger. I'd be heavy on the phone with them to make sure they know this is an issue so they can address it, fix you boat and make sure their new boats don't have this issue.

You pay to much money for these boats to have growing pains like this. I'm sorry, that's just totally unacceptable.
30 minutes to fuel up your boat. Not only are you wasting you boating time you are holding up the fuel dock that others want to use.

Please let us know if you have contacted your dealer and what their response is. I'm seeing a lot of little issues on this forum with RT boats. I know all boats have issues but all in all these systems are pretty simple and nagging issues should be addressed in testing, real world and factory and at the prototype stage. Maybe it's just a costs issue on the manufacturer side.

Hope you get that rectified.


So I'm assuming that you own a Ranger Tug and have not experienced this or "a lot of little issues". What year and model is your boat please? Maybe we could all learn something from your posteriori knowledge.
Chimo: a word of greeting, farewell, and toast before drinking once widely spoken in the Inuktitut language in northern Canada.
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Re: filling up diesel--R-27

Postby PetDrs on Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:31 pm

Chimo wrote:
Kim and Ed wrote:Hey Chimo,
I had the Cleanway sent by USPS and Canada Post up here to Quadra Island, BC and it arrived in couple of days. Postage was about $20. The devise works perfectly, fill time has been greatly reduced and I save alot on absorbant towels. Nor do I smell like diesel for the rest of the day. You could have it sent to where ever you will be staying in Portland and pick it up when you visit. I think the postage cost was a small price to live right next door to Desolation Sound!
Ed Fisher
TugEtherness


Thanks so much for the answer. I was bemoaning the fact that I couldn’t find this locally at the Chandlers here in Sidney. Short answer: the BC distributors are Western Marine who are wholesale only. The chandler ordered it and delivery will be tomorrow afternoon. Price is $75 CDN (58 USD). I should have done my homework better before asking for help! My apologies.


Thanks for the info! Just contacted the Harbour Chandler in Nanaimo and they ordered one for me and said it will be here tomorrow! Hope it works!
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Re: filling up diesel--R-27

Postby Andrew Custis on Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:31 pm

I am sorry to report that diesel boats can be this way. When the diesel enters the tank at a high rate, it foams and expands which will sometimes come out of the vent or fill before you are actually full. Also, I have seen so many times where the large nozzle is being used which has a high flow that the venting on our tanks won’t handle. In addition to this, I’ve seen clogged vents which are not breathing as they should causing the slow fill. Kirk, you should go and inspect the fuel hose routing on his boat and note that the vent line and fuel fill line have a nice drop and are actually routed very nicely. My guess is this is not the first owner and who knows how it worked from the time it was new. There are many differences from a boat to a car so let’s please not jump on the bandwagon and automatically blame the factory for something they did wrong.
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Re: filling up diesel--R-27

Postby Brian B on Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:04 am

Along with what Andrew related a marina operator told me that the dye used in the diesel makes it foam up even more. I have found some marina's that have the high volume nozzles can turn the flow rate down at the pump, worth asking when you encounter them.
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Re: filling up diesel--R-27

Postby Chimo on Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:06 am

I always fill up at Van Isle Marina here in Sidney BC. They have a very active fuel dock and service a lot of large yachts so they go through a lot of diesel. The staff are very helpful and always turn down the flow level for me. They have both the large and small nozzles available and obviously I always take the small one. I bought the Cleanway because it seems like a bit of inexpensive extra insurance against the spill that could be caused, most likely, by my inattention while filling. I personally have no complaints with the design or installation of the filling system. Foaming diesel is a fact of life.
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Re: filling up diesel--R-27

Postby BB marine on Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:18 am

I am not disagreeing with the reasons why Diesel fuel can present an issue for fueling a tank. It does foam, I wasn't aware of the dye, but may contribute, the large fuel nozzles or high speed nozzles require extra attention.( My C26 deck fill will not except the large nozzles,I have to carry the VW adapter and run the nozzle very slow.) The crushed fuel line installed by Cutwater contributed to my fueling issues and the hose routing installed by Cutwater also contributed to fuel filling issues. These issues have been well documented by many Tug and Cut owners. I would image Fluid Motion has looked at these very easily fixed issues and put it in their PDI to make sure all fuel Line routing is done properly. For the many owners that are experiencing issues we are on our own. We continually come up with solutions like- Stop fueling when it starts foaming out, fill very slow, fill and stop ,fill and stop burp the tank, use devises made for boats with poor designed fuel fill systems. The issue can't be fixed unless a new tank venting design is installed. Having the vent and fuel fill installed on the tank 2" apart adds to this issue. Having the fuel fill and vent installed in the far aft starboard corner of the tank, same side that the fuel fill is adds to the issue. Having a boat that at normal rest has a attitude of water line stern lower then bow adds to the problem. The more common tank install for a belly tank is to locate the vent and fill apart. Another solution is to have the tank fill and vent located in the middle of the tank or if the boat is a Stern low attitude the fuel vent would be installed in a forward section of the tank. All of these installs present issues for access. The biggest issues is cost of engineering and installation of the tanks connections. The ABYC has a requirement -a. Accessible - Capable of being reached for inspection, removal or maintenance without removal of permanent boat structure. Installing a fuel tank designed to have all the fuel pick-ups, sending unit ,vent and fill all located in the same location makes installation very easy and fulfills the ABYC requirements. It just makes the owner of the vessel, Fuel dock attendant sometimes frustrated and the environment possibly compromised. Is Ranger the only boat that has this issue? No! The feed back I have received from Fuel dock attendants at many fuel docks. Diesel powered boats give them the least amount of grief. They deal with it more with smaller gas powered boats. Most fuel dock attendants agree fueling isn't an issue with diesels ,most diesel powered boats fuel up and take on board hundreds of gallons of fuel.( I usually bring this up at every fuel up. " I'll fuel it up it takes a long time and I don't want to take your time' if you have absorbent towels can you get a few for me") The fuel attendant at REEF POINT MARINA " If we had to do this with all the diesel powered boats here we would never get them off the dock".

What is the solution ? Deal with it, be prepared with absorbent towels, try new suggestions post on TugNuts, don't fill your tank all the way, fill your tank until it foams over and then fill an additional portable tank and add to the tank later if you need the fuel range. This issue doesn't stop us from using the boat, most of us know it is an issue and work thru it. The disappointing issue is making excuses of what diesel fuel causes when fueling. If it doesn't work properly why not come up with a solution to fix it. Hopefully Fluid Motion did with their new builds. The first Rangers came out in 2007 or 08 I belief they had issues in fueling then ( I am assuming from comments posted on TugNuts) We have a 2016 the issue is still there. Hopefully the newer models do not. I have been told that Fluid Motion is improving their build. The amenities that Fluid Motion installs in their boats is awesome. I believe their hull design is awesome. I like all of the unique designs and uses of space that are utilized in the Fluid Motion design. This is my opinion- We are all entitled to our opinion. I would like to see them put as much emphasis in the mechanicals as the do with the Hull design and amenities.
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Re: filling up diesel--R-27

Postby Cutwater28GG on Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:33 am

my trick to fueling is to use my ears. I crack open the flow rate on the handle just a little so the rate is low; yes it takes a little longer to fill but most times I am only putting in 30 -50 gallons. Then listen carefully as you approach the fill point you have calculated from the garmin. as you get close I listen for the gurgling. more often than not this happens about 2-6 gallons more than where the Garmin says the tank is full.

as soon as I hear the fuel bubbling up the vent I shut off and call it full. otherwise the fuel either comes out the vent or the main fill point. not good unless you are the karate kid with fuel rags and catch it all!
Gavin - 2012 Cutwater 28
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Re: filling up diesel--R-27

Postby Bruce Moore on Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:17 pm

BB marine wrote:The first Rangers came out in 2007 or 08 I belief they had issues in fueling then ( I am assuming from comments posted on TugNuts) We have a 2016 the issue is still there.


Chiming in with personal experience. We've owned three Ranger Tugs in the last 10 years - an R-25 Classic, and R-29 Classic, and an R-31. We've fueled up at locations all over the Salish Sea, from Olympia to Desolation Sound, and never had a problem other than a stiff back.

Cheers,

Bruce
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Re: filling up diesel--R-27

Postby Connerkip on Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:04 pm

I used to have a problem, but found the vent hose had a low spot. I rerouted it and I can now use the high speed fill hose without issue.
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Re: filling up diesel--R-27

Postby captstu on Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:28 pm

My Ranger R25 has a “fuel tank vent whistle” installed. It stops whistling when the tank is full. $42 at West Marine.

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/ocean-ac ... noQAvD_BwE

I also built a cheat 1 1/4” NPT to 1 1/2” pvc elbow to fuel when only high speed pumps are available. $5 at Home Depot.

Assuming you have no clogs or twists, you should spill no fuel with these two.



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Re: filling up diesel--R-27

Postby BB marine on Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:35 am

I received the Cleanway and used it on my fill-up this week. I would give it a positive review. I didn't use it until I heard the "gurgling" noise about 10 gallons before full. I put the Cleanway in deck fill and slowly filled the tank to top it off. It bubbled up five or six times raising up in the Cleanway about an inch with no spilling over in the water.Each time it bubbled up I moved to the port side to burp the tank. My Garmin showed 36 gallons remaining and the Volvo fuel gauge read 37 gallons remaining. I was able to get 40.8 gallons on board. I consider that full. A small amount of fuel did spill out of vent while filling, one absorbent towel used. The total process took 20 minutes to fill. I feel this is good enough. Replaced crushed fuel fill hose, cut 6" off vent hose ,used eyelet tie straps and anchored fuel fill and vent hose to have straight flow, no low spots to the tank, start filling slow when 10 gallons from estimated full tank, use Cleanway adapter. I will note: if it is a routine fill up at our home port. I fill up to the estimated 10 gallons before full and stop.I add that specific gallon amount to the Garmin. The total fuel fill is when fuel range is needed when cruising.
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Re: filling up diesel--R-27

Postby pschnack on Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:26 am

Just as a fill in. I have/had the same problem. I replaced the vent once and my plan is probably to replace it again, with a different model. Try this...

Undo the hose going to the vent next time you are filling up. It is right there and easily accessible, next to the fuel fill. (look from the cockpit side). I do suggest using a absorbant towel near it just in case. :)

When I do this my boat fills great without the burping, problem that I was having.

Your milage may vary, but it might give you a better idea where the problem is.

-Peter
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Re: filling up diesel--R-27

Postby johnw on Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:44 pm

My service guy pulled a 2 inch plastic cap from the fuel line!
The problem has been corrected.
Thanks for all the suggestions,
John
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Re: filling up diesel--R-27

Postby Red Raven on Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:42 pm

johnw wrote:My service guy pulled a 2 inch plastic cap from the fuel line!
The problem has been corrected.
Thanks for all the suggestions,
John


:lol: love it when the root cause is different than we all assume! There are always more root causes than we imagine!

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Re: filling up diesel--R-27

Postby yogolferjim on Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:19 pm

johnw wrote:R-27, 2012,
Any tips on fueling the tank? With no exaggeration, it takes me 30 mins to get 28 gallons of diesel in tank!
I had it taken to a marine tech and they tested the vent and no obstructions. It makes the hose stop every time you try to increase the flow into the tank. I had the plastic vertical cylinder attachment and that does not help. I cut a plastic gallon bottle and it flows smoother and without spillage ,but is still excessively slow.
Any thoughts??
Thanks, J

try a different location to fill up it may be the place that has the problem ?
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