Not Impressed At All - Access to Important Areas

S

SV Argo

New member
Joined
Oct 11, 2021
Messages
3
Fluid Motion Model
C-28
Hull Identification Number
FMLT2748C111
My father recently purchased a 2012 R-27. That's probably all I need to say, but I'll elaborate a bit for context.

1) The Yanmar YB 180hp whatever is a great engine, BUT by far the worst engine for this application. Service on marine engines in never "fun", and this one is downright stupid. No logical access to impellers or belts? Really? So the parts that require the most frequent attention aren't accessible? That is unless you're a 3' tall contortionist with a respectable tool kit available to disassemble the aft end of the boat before you start your act.

2) On this model, there are 2 electric bilge pumps. Both of which are located in the engine compartment. Sure, ok, that's fine. BUT, those are both completely isolated from the rest of the bilge, which is about 2/3's the length of the boat. WWHHHAAAAATTTT???? Sure, there's a drain plug at the foot of the keel, but you have to haul out of the water to get to that. I know, I know, "it's a trailer boat" and maybe not designed to be in the water all year around. And maybe that's great for most folks. That said, how hard is it to put in a bilge pump in the main section of the bilge? And add access to it?

which brings me to my next point.....

3) Access to important areas of the boat are non-existent. This is the first boat I have ever been on where the floor panels are glued down. You can't access under the floor...at all. WTF is that about? So any hose connections, inaccessible. The bilge....inaccessible. It's maddening.

All of the things I've mentioned could easily be resolve...very inexpensively.....at the factory. The lack of attention to detail is astonishing. It's as if no one on the design team has ever actually owned or maybe even seen a real boat. Access panels...think guys...think! If these items have been resolved in newer models, that fine. But the fact that you guys made it as far as 2012 without noticing these things almost makes it worse.

All in all, the boat is nice. It's fun, it looks GREAT, and it does its job well. That said, the maintenance aspect is horrid and only outshined by the lack of attention to detail. All that's left for me to say is that I'm glad we bought this one used. MSRP is laughable.


Cheers,
SV Argo
 
Maybe you should get your own boat then and stay off your fathers?
 
Your father purchased a boat that is 11 model years old. Ranger Tugs are evolving each year. The current 27 is completely different than the older inboard. We have a 2015 inboard 31 that has been straightforward to perform maintenance on.
A walkaround engine compartment would be great, too. But you may need a boat much bigger than a 27.
I believe most Ranger Tugs customers feel like they have a great boat, with lots of features. Since they retain a high fraction of their selling price, many think Ranger Tugs are a value proposition.
 
Yes some things on these boats are pain to get to go work on an airplane first requirement eyeballs in your fingertips
 
Agree with Dbrumwell. Build an airplane first then the access almost all of the components in the RT-25 and RT-27 Classics don’t seem that bad. That said, your point is well taken because access to some components is damn near impossible.
Many of us have modified the boats with additional inspection/access panels or other mods to improve access. While changing the Yanmar 4BY2 impeller is physically impossible for me to do, the step cutout I did to improve front of engine access allows a marine mechanic to do the whole thing in 45 minutes.
 
Dear Dad: probably should not leave the boat to SV in the will. In the meantime enjoy the boat.
 
Amazon can help if your dad doesn't change the will. Start with:
- Irwin 11" needle nose pliers (buy 2, one for each hand)
- Boroscope for iphone (many to select)
- 15 or 20 lb telescoping magnetic pick-up
- 3 pack of 36" flex cable pick-up
- box of band -aids
- Klein 85664 square screwdriver set (if many square screw heads like 2017)

Just remember that there are a lot of luxury options in Ranger Tugs that boaters love. Americans are spoiled with luxury
and technology. To pack all this in a small boat is very hard. You could buy a 50+ ft boat of another brand and walk almost walk around the two engines in the 110 deg F engine room. Then have a real fuel hog and have to be a real expert to park it at a dock.

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Think about that means. To make something simple and luxurious, takes a lot of engineering and money. When compared to cars, there is a lot less design money available to make things simple boats. This is due to production rates. Look at how complex cars are today.

If fixing things is not your calling in life, then find a buddy who is or resort to the expensive mechanics who will already have the tools above.
 
SV ARGO, First let me say that your father is very lucky to have someone to share and help with the joy and frustration of boat ownership. Your observation and frustration of access for routine maintenance has been posted many times and a lot of good information as to modifications to make for easier access for routine maintenance. As with any task or job the first time is the hardest and will be less a PITA the next time. Most people that don't understand your point of view have never worked on their own boat and only complain about the high cost of labor for a simple task. You and your dad enjoy your boat and remind him what the term (Sweat Equity) means! Bob
 
SV Argo":3tey3ltp said:
My father recently purchased a 2012 R-27. That's probably all I need to say, but I'll elaborate a bit for context.

1) The Yanmar YB 180hp whatever is a great engine, BUT by far the worst engine for this application. Service on marine engines in never "fun", and this one is downright stupid. No logical access to impellers or belts? Really? I can change the impeller in 45 minutes. There is an access panel under the step to the cabin. For easier access I enlarged the hole and made a removable panel that the access door mounts on. So for impeller changes I remove the panel with access door still attached. I also cut the interior access panel in half and at the right side close to the wall so I can remove it in two pieces from the step without removing items in the cave.So the parts that require the most frequent attention aren't accessible? That is unless you're a 3' tall contortionist with a respectable tool kit available to disassemble the aft end of the boat before you start your act.

2) On this model, there are 2 electric bilge pumps. Both of which are located in the engine compartment. Sure, ok, that's fine. BUT, those are both completely isolated from the rest of the bilge, which is about 2/3's the length of the boat. WWHHHAAAAATTTT???? Sure, there's a drain plug at the foot of the keel, but you have to haul out of the water to get to that. I know, I know, "it's a trailer boat" and maybe not designed to be in the water all year around. And maybe that's great for most folks. That said, how hard is it to put in a bilge pump in the main section of the bilge? And add access to it? The rear pumps are enough, There are weep holes that allow water forward to drain to the rear. The rear bilge pump is very accessible. The front one is accessible from the access door I referred to earlier

which brings me to my next point.....

3) Access to important areas of the boat are non-existent. This is the first boat I have ever been on where the floor panels are glued down. You can't access under the floor...at all. WTF is that about?No access via the center floor necessary. If you need to get to water tank connections, remove refrigerator. You may need to cut the floor out under the refrigerator at the front to access the hoses and sensor, but you do that when and if necessary[/b]. So any hose connections, inaccessible. The bilge....inaccessible. It's maddening.

All of the things I've mentioned could easily be resolve...very inexpensively.....at the factory. The lack of attention to detail is astonishing. It's as if no one on the design team has ever actually owned or maybe even seen a real boat. Access panels...think guys...think! If these items have been resolved in newer models, that fine. But the fact that you guys made it as far as 2012 without noticing these things almost makes it worse.

All in all, the boat is nice. It's fun, it looks GREAT, and it does its job well. That said, the maintenance aspect is horrid and only outshined by the lack of attention to detail. All that's left for me to say is that I'm glad we bought this one used. MSRP is laughable.
Cheers,
SV Argo
Click to expand...

People think that our boats are "cute" and buy them. They don't realize that our Cute boat has big boat systems. This requires squeezing everything in. Many times a simple job can take hours because of all the things that get in the way. If one wants the conveniences of the big boat in a small boat this is the additional price one pays. so as with other things and especially a boat, pick your poison
 
Hang in there! You will find ways to help your father maintain his Ranger Tug. After a few maintenance intervals it will be second nature. Sure you will use a few explicit words from time to time and yes you will require some moral support from your father. It all can be done. We have all had frustrations when working on theses boats. But for the most part we all come back and do it again. The job is done and beer in hand, all is good. I hope your father and you enjoy the boat!
 
What KnotFlying said. Big boat conveniences in a compact package result in compromises. Make visiting this site part of your distraction routine. It will solve / salve most of your maintenance ills. Gary
 
These are small boats with the features of big boats. For example, my R-23 has 10 pumps - they can’t all be easy to get to.

Actually, as I think about it, they are all relatively easy to maintain.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Thanks for your feedback, its these informative helpful responses that lead to solutions. Boat maintenance can be challenging, we know, we just down sized from a Carver 36MY aft cabin, to a "pending" R27OB.

Already know that accessing the "thruster" battery is challenging, therefore an additional access panel may be in the future!

I wan to believe Fluid Motion takes owner feedback seriously, as they have evolved layouts throughout model years. Part supply's can dictate updates as well, and even layout position.
 
I have to agree with the comment about concerns being addressed by the factory. I purchased my 2021 r23 and immediately planned a few mods based on threads posted from 2017 to present.
I was pleasantly surprised and relieved to find that the factory had already addressed these issues in my model year. For example… the teak door on the head is split down the middle and is now bi fold, allowing it to open and close freely.
The engine pod now has a bilge pump installed.
One extra battery has been added to help with webasto a/c startup.
I’m sure there are many more mods made at the factory that I am unaware of since their earlier models were released.
It’s impressive, to see a company strive to improve their product even when it means listening to criticism.
 
My boat's a 200 sq-ft fully furnished apartment on the water. With space at a premium, I wish for easy access to everything, but I expect that even the most simplest job may take way longer than it should removing interference, crawling into tight spaces, working upside down by feel with my eyes closed.

I remember watching that YouTube video of Kenny at RT changing out the water impeller on a R27 classic. (No offense Kenny, it's a great video!!).
https://youtu.be/OpQOvkSFZYw

I've got the R27-Outboard. Here's how I change out the water impeller on the outboard. (start at minute 21:00)
https://youtu.be/hmqInREaC0A?t=1261

One might argue that changing the impeller out on an outboard is way easier than an inboard. But the inboard doesn't require a haul-out to change out the impeller. For someone who doesn't own a trailer this may be an important factor to consider.

Boats are all about compromise.
I relocated my house battery bank because the extra storage space in the center cockpit wasn't as important to me as easy access to my batteries, which do fail, and are expected to fail. Other RT27 owners are not willing to give up that center cockpit lazarette space and need those batteries in the port lazarette, where they're extremely difficult to access.

The factory can only do so much in their designs of the boat.

When you buy a used boat you're buying a part of the previous owner. Their likes and dislikes (as reflected in the upgrades and modifications they've made). You're also buying the previous owners maintenance schedule (or often times, their lack thereof).

I would also point out that, over the years, RT has improved their boats based on customer feedback. The RT27-OB used to not come with a gauge for the diesel tank (webasto heater). My boat doesn't have a high-water bilge alarm, the newer one's do.
 
SV Argo, wait until you work on the electrical system. I also own a 2012 R27. The electrical schematic is incomplete (according to the schematic, the windlass doesn’t exist) and it has errors, but here’s the biggest electrical manufacturing error: when the boat is built, a wiring harness is pre-made and wires that will be connected to appliances later in the building process are terminated in heat shrink butt splices. The harness side of the butt splice has the heat shrink activated. When connections are later made to these butt splices, inexplicably, the heat shrink IS NOT activated on the appliance side. The butt splice is crimped and insulation left open. Those connections are wire corrosion failures waiting to happen, especially in the cockpit area. My boat is full of these open ended butt splices.
 
Those connections are wire corrosion failures waiting to happen, especially in the cockpit area.
Click to expand...

+1 Just retrofitted the aft bilge pump wiring this winter for exactly that reason.
 
Oh Well is a 2020 27 OB. No complaints at all. 300 HP plenty of power. Maintenance easy. Well thought out and engineered.

Bonus is the cockpit storage
(where an inboard diesel would be). Imagine your dad's boat with all that space!

My wife and I agreed that if she didn't want to cruise, it becomes my floating man cave. Late last fall enjoyed watching a couple of football games as well as PGA golf. Life is tough but we all have to do it!! Cheers.

Agree you should get a newer boat!

Oh Well!!
 
Ouch! It’s a boat! Take your time and you’ll get through it. As stated in a previous comment “grab a beer”. It’s all possible just think it through. Don’t be afraid to ask for help.
 
Not impressed with a 10 year old boat design.... hmmmmm

Ok, I'll bite:
My previously owned 1967 Chris Craft cabin cruiser:
-no auto pilot
-no radar
-foot operated water pump
-no Nav system
-fuel gage was a yardstick
-no bow/stern thrusters
-no windlass
-no ladder/swim platform
-I could keep going, but hopefully the point has been made
 
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