Joined the club, killed my house batteries

gregc

gregc

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 30, 2021
Messages
147
Location
Redmond, WA
Fluid Motion Model
R-27 (Outboard)
Hull Identification Number
FMLT2738J819
Vessel Name
Hula Girl
MMSI Number
368236520
Well, it was bound to happen.

Noticed online that the boat had stopped squawking AIS data. Very odd.

Took a drive up to the boat to investigate. The work crew that was working on my galvanic isolator must have switched everything off while working on mains (of course) but didn't remember to flip back on the house battery charger.

Alas, house batteries were dead. Got stuff up and running but I figure the AGM bats are damaged enough, and OLD enough to warrant a replacement.

Anyone have suggestions for marine batteries around Seattle/Everett, or is this just an Amazon situation?
 
gregc said:
Well, it was bound to happen.

Noticed online that the boat had stopped squawking AIS data. Very odd.

Took a drive up to the boat to investigate. The work crew that was working on my galvanic isolator must have switched everything off while working on mains (of course) but didn't remember to flip back on the house battery charger.

Alas, house batteries were dead. Got stuff up and running but I figure the AGM bats are damaged enough, and OLD enough to warrant a replacement.

Anyone have suggestions for marine batteries around Seattle/Everett, or is this just an Amazon situation?
Click to expand...

Make sure the lugs are 5/16" and not automotive clamp on posts.
 
Two seasons ago I replaced my AGMs with AGMs. I wasn't ready to change to lithium. If I was making the same decision today I would make the change to lithium instead of staying with agms.
 
SKing said:
Two seasons ago I replaced my AGMs with AGMs. I wasn't ready to change to lithium. If I was making the same decision today I would make the change to lithium instead of staying with agms.
Click to expand...

It was/is an opportunity to jump to LiFePO4, but having seen and watched the videos from Submariner, I know I don't have the cash to do it properly this season. And truthfully, I rarely get the chance to anchor out. Dock to dock, always w/ a 30amp shore plug.
 
Oh, and now I have the excuse to mount the BMV-712 thats been sitting on the shelf. 🙂
 
On your initial question, where to buy, figure out what type and brand and there are a lot of options. I went with the Victron Supercell last time and got them at Fisheries in Seattle. There are lots of opinions here on what to use for replacement batteries. If you are inclined to go with a cheaper battery, Costco sells Interstate marine.
 
SKing said:
Two seasons ago I replaced my AGMs with AGMs. I wasn't ready to change to lithium. If I was making the same decision today I would make the change to lithium instead of staying with agms.
Click to expand...

That's interesting, thanks for sharing! I bought my boat last year, and according to the service records from the previous owner, the batteries were replaced in late 2022 with Discovery AGMs.

Before purchasing, I thought converting to LiFePO4 would be my first upgrade. Ten months later, I'm not so sure. I understand the value, but the biggest benefit seems to be when you're disconnected from shore power, like anchored in a bay, for example. So far, we've spent zero nights at anchor. I'm not sure if that will change with time, or if there's a subconscious blocker that will fade as we gain more confidence. Right now, we've anchored for 6-8 hours at a time on Lake Washington during the summer, and the AGM batteries have handled it just fine.

For those of you with AGM banks: have you stayed overnight at anchor? Did your AGM bank provide the power you needed comfortably, or did you have to be frugal? In terms of consumption, we're not particularly conservative and honestly, I don't want to worry about things like "I should turn this light off because it's been on for three hours." I estimate we'd run saloon lights for 4-5 hours, stateroom TV for 3-4 hours, plus two fridges and normal shower/head usage.

Using the Excel file Andrew provided in this thread, I roughly estimate 180 Amp-hours per day. How realistic is that? I have no idea. Assuming the batteries still have 90% efficiency, I could theoretically spend one night without shore power. I've never tested it because I haven't installed the SmartShunt yet, and I have no practical way to monitor consumption. I don't want to risk killing my batteries.

Sorry for this long message in your post, @gregc, but I think I can get some good takeaways from your decision and from others in this thread. I'm questioning whether the lithium investment would pay off in terms of actual benefits. Am I not staying overnight at anchor because I lack battery capacity, or because I lack interest/confidence. Might that change in the future? I honestly don't know.

Thanks and have a good weekend you'all
 
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abastos said:
That's interesting, thanks for sharing! I bought my boat last year, and according to the service records from the previous owner, the batteries were replaced in late 2022 with Discovery AGMs.

Before purchasing, I thought converting to LiFePO4 would be my first upgrade. Ten months later, I'm not so sure. I understand the value, but the biggest benefit seems to be when you're disconnected from shore power, like anchored in a bay, for example. So far, we've spent zero nights at anchor. I'm not sure if that will change with time, or if there's a subconscious blocker that will fade as we gain more confidence. Right now, we've anchored for 6-8 hours at a time on Lake Washington during the summer, and the AGM batteries have handled it just fine.

For those of you with AGM banks: have you stayed overnight at anchor? Did your AGM bank provide the power you needed comfortably, or did you have to be frugal? In terms of consumption, we're not particularly conservative and honestly, I don't want to worry about things like "I should turn this light off because it's been on for three hours." I estimate we'd run saloon lights for 4-5 hours, stateroom TV for 3-4 hours, plus two fridges and normal shower/head usage.

Using the Excel file Andrew provided in this thread, I roughly estimate 180 Amp-hours per day. How realistic is that? I have no idea. Assuming the batteries still have 90% efficiency, I could theoretically spend one night without shore power. I've never tested it because I haven't installed the SmartShunt yet, and I have no practical way to monitor consumption. I don't want to risk killing my batteries.

Sorry for this long message in your post, @gregc, but I think I can get some good takeaways from your decision and from others in this thread. I'm questioning whether the lithium investment would pay off in terms of actual benefits. Am I not staying overnight at anchor because I lack battery capacity, or because I lack interest/confidence. Might that change in the future? I honestly don't know.

Thanks and have a good weekend you'all
Click to expand...

In general, these boats, an average boater will consume about 75-90 amp-hours a day. The cabin refrigerator is the largest electrical load and accounts for about 45 amp-hours daily.

The NW edition, with AGM batteries.. R27, 25 and R23, came with two house batteries and provide about 100 amp-hours that is usable. This provides 1 night on the hook. The R29 and R31’s came with four house batteries providing 200 amp-hours that was usable, thus, they could do 2 nights at anchor.

I have a very in-depth spreadsheet that I modeled from Andrew years ago. It covers every switch and electrical device on the boat.

When we got our R27 in June 2020, it took me 90 days to sulfate and destroy my house bank. I had to figure out the electrical system and better understand my consumption. Once I did that, I had to decide, do I learn to live with less which would make me want to use the boat less? Or figure a way to increase capacity.

I eneded up converting my boat from AGM to LFP. I went from 100 amp-hours usable on a pair fo AGM batteires to a single LFP battery that provides us with 256 amp-hours that are usable. I used the detailed spreadsheet I made to better estimate how large a battery bank I needed. This also helped me determine how large of solar panels to upgrade to. I have 420 watts total. As a result, with Solar and LFP, shorepower has become mostly optional during boating season for us. But as you point out, everybody boats differently.
 
Thanks Martin! Clearly I'm having issues calculating my power consumption 😛. Appreciate the date you shared. I came up with 180 Amp-hours per day based on: 2 fridges (10 hours/day each one), 4 hours of TV with firestick and stereo, 5 hours of saloon lights, 2 hours cockpit lights, 0.5 hours of Tecma toilet usage, and 1 hour of fresh water pump (yes, I'm a Hollywood shower person).

My C-30 is similar to R-29 and R-31, with 4 AGM Type 31 (110Ah each) for house battery, ~200 Ah usable.
 
abastos said:
Thanks Martin! Clearly I'm having issues calculating my power consumption 😛. Appreciate the date you shared. I came up with 180 Amp-hours per day based on: 2 fridges (10 hours/day each one), 4 hours of TV with firestick and stereo, 5 hours of saloon lights, 2 hours cockpit lights, 0.5 hours of Tecma toilet usage, and 1 hour of fresh water pump (yes, I'm a Hollywood shower person).

My C-30 is similar to R-29 and R-31, with 4 AGM Type 31 (110Ah each) for house battery, ~200 Ah usable.
Click to expand...
In our C30, according to our shunt, we consume aprox 150 amp hrs, anchoring in the afternoon and pulling anchor by about 10 am. That ignores the ammount we consumed that the stock solar panel produced. So yes with healthy AGM batteries you are good for a night at anchor. It would only be a concern if you were going to stay at the same spot for multiple nights.
 
abastos said:
Thanks Martin! Clearly I'm having issues calculating my power consumption 😛. Appreciate the date you shared. I came up with 180 Amp-hours per day based on: 2 fridges (10 hours/day each one), 4 hours of TV with firestick and stereo, 5 hours of saloon lights, 2 hours cockpit lights, 0.5 hours of Tecma toilet usage, and 1 hour of fresh water pump (yes, I'm a Hollywood shower person).

My C-30 is similar to R-29 and R-31, with 4 AGM Type 31 (110Ah each) for house battery, ~200 Ah usable.
Click to expand...

Shoot me an email to channelsurfing at Nethkin dot net and I’ll send you my excel spreadsheet. It has tabs on it for r29 and c30’s, as well as AGM and LFP factory boats (r27 also).

 
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If I'm doing this, I might as well do all of them.

Is anyone aware of CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) requirements for the Yamaha 300, or the forward thrusters on a R27-OB? There seems to be a wide range, and I'd prefer one brand across the boat.
 
gregc said:
If I'm doing this, I might as well do all of them.

Is anyone aware of CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) requirements for the Yamaha 300, or the forward thrusters on a R27-OB? There seems to be a wide range, and I'd prefer one brand across the boat.
Click to expand...

The F300 needs 680 CCA. Best to go with a starting battery that’ll provide at least 900. That’s what the boat came with.
The thruster battery the boat comes with is an AGM deep cycle, 110ah battery with 550 CCA. The thruster pulls about 150 amps if I remember correctly.

I’m still on the factory original thruster and engine starting battery. 6 years young. 🙂
 
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OK, I guess I’m in the club with gregc now. I left the house bank on for about 9 days with no charging. The six lithiums on my 2022 R27 are all reading about 1.15V. I’m hoping the BMS in each battery shut them down, but the charger doesn’t want to get them going again. I’ve messaged Dakota Lithium, but their estimated response time is two weeks. Any suggestions to bring these batteries back to life?
 
boatliker said:
OK, I guess I’m in the club with gregc now. I left the house bank on for about 9 days with no charging. The six lithiums on my 2022 R27 are all reading about 1.15V. I’m hoping the BMS in each battery shut them down, but the charger doesn’t want to get them going again. I’ve messaged Dakota Lithium, but their estimated response time is two weeks. Any suggestions to bring these batteries back to life?
Click to expand...

You need to jump-start them. The BMS protected them. Easiest way to do that is to start the engine, so it's running. Parallel your engine and house, as that'll provide 14+ volts to the (6) Dakota batteries you have. That will jump-start them to start taking a charge. Then turn on your battery charger, un-parallel the engine and house (don't leave them in parallel for very long). Turn the engine off. Your battery charger should be able to finish charging your house lithium bank to fully charged. With a 60 amp battery charger and 600 ah, it'll take awhile... figure at least 12 hours.
 
On our R31, we use closer to 200 amps per day. But we are doing multi-month travel with lots of anchoring, running two refers and a large additional freezer in the cockpit, plus Starlink 15 hours a day. So we are probably on the high side for power usage compared to many.
 
i just keep replacing with the universal AGM's. free delivery from home depot and sometimes amazon. I have an X2 high cranking battery for the engine (inboard diesel)

our 340W panel put out 1.2Kwh yesterday while we have been at anchor for 2 days in the san juans.

the one change Im thinking of making is to just keep the boat wired as a AGM, but buy a an anker C2000 solix and plug this into shore power connector (with battery charger off) to run 110v and other devices. missed the prime sale so will wait until it drops to $699 next time
 
Cutwater28GG said:
the one change Im thinking of making is to just keep the boat wired as a AGM, but buy a an anker C2000 solix and plug this into shore power connector (with battery charger off) to run 110v and other devices.
Click to expand...
I have an Anker Solix C2000 on my 2012 R27 and use it as you describe. Of course, it won’t run the air conditioning or hot water heater.
 
Also Anker Solix C2000 gen2 on 2011 C26. Ready for deployment as shorepower alternative, but default setup is isolated power for troublesome loads: microwave, kettle, entire network/antennas/bridges. Works like a charm: AC recharge when on shorepower, background "cig lighter" charge when moving. Could have used one half that size!
/diatom
 
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CaspersCruiser said:
I have an Anker Solix C2000 on my 2012 R27 and use it as you describe. Of course, it won’t run the air conditioning or hot water heater.
Click to expand...
This year on our trip to Desolation Sound in our 2014 R27, I fried my solar controller from salt spray on the way up in the Strait of Georgia. Fortunately I had my Jackery 1500 on board with 4x 100W folding solar panels. I plugged the shore power cable into the Jackery and used it and the boats battery charger to charge the boat AGM House batteries each day while on anchor. Kept us reasonably charged for 4 days in Desolation Sound. The Jackery saved the trip!

BTW, normally I use the Jackery plugged in the same way to heat hot water for showers using the boats hot water heater. Just need to make sure to run only one device on the boat at a time to not overload the inverter. Of course, this year hot water was out of the question because I needed all the power to keep the AGM’s charged.

Curt
 
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