Push button starter panel - 2014 Ranger Tug 21EC

C

cdfdoug

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Oct 11, 2021
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Hoping someone has some insight. New problem. Yesterday I took the tug out on the Hood Canal. When I went to start in in the marina, it had a delayed start. Pushed the on off button to turn it on, then pushed the start button (after making sure I was set to neutral). Engine didn't turn over right away but turned over and started after a couple of seconds without my finger on the start button. Then after we got out on the water and shut down for awhile we were going to head back in and it did the same thing again....delayed starting. when we got into the dock, it didn't want to shut down the first couple of times I hit the stop button. I was starting to think I was going to have to use fuel cutoff, when it finally shut down. Then it got even weirder. I was on the dock helping my bride finish tying up the boat when it started by itself and then shut off. It did that twice. So then I check it out further before we depart. I start it and it has the delayed start issue and then when I hit the off button, it shuts down while I'm pushing the button but then starts running again when I let up on the button. It did that a few times before it finally shut down. Not sure where to start trouble shooting but I have noticed that some folks have installed a remote starter switch which I think I will do as I don't have the red key start in the engine compartment. Any ideas would be most welcome.
 
I have a 2014 also. Do you have the Volvo engine? The start panel sounds familiar, unlike Yanmar. If so, I assume you experience this with a cold engine: Turn on panel. Volvo logo and then hours should show up on display. Wait about ten secons for a beep, meaning the glow plugs have heated up and done their thing. Start button should then immedeately start engine. Egnine should shut down immediately upon pressing stop button. If engine is at all warm, it will start immediately without waiting for beep. Any deviation from that is not normal, expecially mysterious uncommanded start/stop. Egnine has a history of problems with the so called MDI box, a small plastic box bolted to left side of engine near starter. You may have a problem with that box, which is not cheap. There is much discussion of this topic in he message archives, although I don't remember anything half as strange as your experience.

Regarding emergency button(s), I put in an emergency start button that simply engages the starter. Unless the engine is really cold, (like at the dock, where it won't matter as much) it will start fairly promptly without the glow plugs.

About stopping it - That could be a real safety issue. I suggest cutting a small notch in the engine box lip near the mechanical stop lever on the egine and running a wire or rope cord from the stop lever out through the notch, with a T handle on it so a good yank will stop the engine.

Let us know how you resolve these mysteries!

Larry
 
lproulx said:
I have a 2014 also. Do you have the Volvo engine? The start panel sounds familiar, unlike Yanmar. If so, I assume you experience this with a cold engine: Turn on panel. Volvo logo and then hours should show up on display. Wait about ten secons for a beep, meaning the glow plugs have heated up and done their thing. Start button should then immedeately start engine. Egnine should shut down immediately upon pressing stop button. If engine is at all warm, it will start immediately without waiting for beep. Any deviation from that is not normal, expecially mysterious uncommanded start/stop. Egnine has a history of problems with the so called MDI box, a small plastic box bolted to left side of engine near starter. You may have a problem with that box, which is not cheap. There is much discussion of this topic in he message archives, although I don't remember anything half as strange as your experience.

Regarding emergency button(s), I put in an emergency start button that simply engages the starter. Unless the engine is really cold, (like at the dock, where it won't matter as much) it will start fairly promptly without the glow plugs.

About stopping it - That could be a real safety issue. I suggest cutting a small notch in the engine box lip near the mechanical stop lever on the egine and running a wire or rope cord from the stop lever out through the notch, with a T handle on it so a good yank will stop the engine.

Let us know how you resolve these mysteries!

Larry
Click to expand...
Thank Larry. I feel like it's the MDI Box that is causing the problem. I've checked it again and can't get it to even start now, From what I have found in my research, those boxes are prone to failure over time due to salt collecting on the electronic traces on the circuit board. I've ordered a new one which was no small feat in itself. Interestingly enough, when I finally found one it was from a place back east for $1100. A day or two later they sent me a new invoice with the price dropped to $450 or so. It hasn't arrived yet but when it does I will get it installed and keep you posted on the outcome. I'm going to call them today to see if I can get an ETA on the part.
 
Oh no! You have an MDI failure. I have a range 21 with the same engine and the same issues. Luckily mine happened when I was at the boat ramp. The fix is easy. The cost is not. Also make sure that when you get your new MDI box it’s not on the list of ones that are known to have failures. There are a whole bunch of ones that are recalled, and when I got mine online, I found out it was one of the recalled ones and returned it. There’s a whole threat on this site about this.

N

Thread 'MDI BOX'

The attached link is a good read on the MDI Box found on the Volvo Penta engines. Found it on another forum. Not sure how many VP models have them but it's what's on my D1-30F. As many of you know there has been many issues around these "black boxes" so well worth the read. It may have been posted here before but was my first time seeing it.

http://nordkyndesign.com/engine-reliabi ... black-box/

Let me know if you need some help. Also, there is a quick way to go to the hardware store and buy a workaround so that if it ever happens again, you can just grab a on-off switch and have it ready to go!

Jonathan littleredtug.com
 
cdfdoug said:
Thank Larry. I feel like it's the MDI Box that is causing the problem. I've checked it again and can't get it to even start now, From what I have found in my research, those boxes are prone to failure over time due to salt collecting on the electronic traces on the circuit board.
Click to expand...
Additionally, the heat from the engine had a tendency to cook them alive.
 
cdfdoug said:
Hoping someone has some insight. New problem. Yesterday I took the tug out on the Hood Canal. When I went to start in in the marina, it had a delayed start. Pushed the on off button to turn it on, then pushed the start button (after making sure I was set to neutral). Engine didn't turn over right away but turned over and started after a couple of seconds without my finger on the start button. Then after we got out on the water and shut down for awhile we were going to head back in and it did the same thing again....delayed starting. when we got into the dock, it didn't want to shut down the first couple of times I hit the stop button. I was starting to think I was going to have to use fuel cutoff, when it finally shut down. Then things got even stranger. The boat started acting completely unpredictably, turning our trip into some kind of https://tropical-casino.com/ online casino where you have absolutely no control over the outcome and everything depends solely on blind chance. It did that a few times before it finally shut down. Not sure where to start trouble shooting but I have noticed that some folks have installed a remote starter switch which I think I will do as I don't have the red key start in the engine compartment. Any ideas would be most welcome.
Click to expand...
The main reason for this behavior is water getting into the “Start/Stop” button panel or the starter solenoid sticking, causing the electrical circuit to close on its own. To fix this, completely disconnect the battery ground for safety and unplug the connector from the control panel. If the spontaneous starting stops after reconnecting the battery ground, the problem lies with the buttons—they need to be dried out, treated with a contact cleaner, or replaced. If the motor still turns over, the starter relay is stuck and must be replaced. Installing a main ground switch is mandatory, as it will allow you to instantly cut power and shut down the boat in an emergency. Until repairs are complete, always disconnect the battery terminal while docked to prevent the boat from starting on its own in the middle of the night.
 
cdfdoug said:
Thank Larry. I feel like it's the MDI Box that is causing the problem. I've checked it again and can't get it to even start now, From what I have found in my research, those boxes are prone to failure over time due to salt collecting on the electronic traces on the circuit board. I've ordered a new one which was no small feat in itself. Interestingly enough, when I finally found one it was from a place back east for $1100. A day or two later they sent me a new invoice with the price dropped to $450 or so. It hasn't arrived yet but when it does I will get it installed and keep you posted on the outcome. I'm going to call them today to see if I can get an ETA on the part.
Click to expand...
So I got the MDI box in the mail and went down to the boat and swapped it out. Everything is back to normal! The one thing I was not aware of is the recall that was pointed out on those boxes so I didn't check that. I will check the number when I get a chance and keep my fingers crossed! I'm also going to get a remote starter setup to have just in case.
 
Qazinho said:
The main reason for this behavior is water getting into the “Start/Stop” button panel or the starter solenoid sticking, causing the electrical circuit to close on its own. To fix this, completely disconnect the battery ground for safety and unplug the connector from the control panel. If the spontaneous starting stops after reconnecting the battery ground, the problem lies with the buttons—they need to be dried out, treated with a contact cleaner, or replaced. If the motor still turns over, the starter relay is stuck and must be replaced. Installing a main ground switch is mandatory, as it will allow you to instantly cut power and shut down the boat in an emergency. Until repairs are complete, always disconnect the battery terminal while docked to prevent the boat from starting on its own in the middle of the night.
Click to expand...
Thanks Qazinho, Swapping out the MDI box cleared up the issue. It's working again as it should. Going to get a remote starter from the auto parts to have on hand to start the boat in case I ever have that sort of failure again.
 
OverTime said:
Additionally, the heat from the engine had a tendency to cook them alive.
Click to expand...
One thing I saw in my research is that they are susceptible to vibration damage. Odd since they are bolted directly to the block.
 
MassTug said:
Oh no! You have an MDI failure. I have a range 21 with the same engine and the same issues. Luckily mine happened when I was at the boat ramp. The fix is easy. The cost is not. Also make sure that when you get your new MDI box it’s not on the list of ones that are known to have failures. There are a whole bunch of ones that are recalled, and when I got mine online, I found out it was one of the recalled ones and returned it. There’s a whole threat on this site about this.

N

Thread 'MDI BOX'

The attached link is a good read on the MDI Box found on the Volvo Penta engines. Found it on another forum. Not sure how many VP models have them but it's what's on my D1-30F. As many of you know there has been many issues around these "black boxes" so well worth the read. It may have been posted here before but was my first time seeing it.

http://nordkyndesign.com/engine-reliabi ... black-box/

Let me know if you need some help. Also, there is a quick way to go to the hardware store and buy a workaround so that if it ever happens again, you can just grab a on-off switch and have it ready to go!

Jonathan littleredtug.com
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting that thread. I did read through it and got some good info from it. I am going to get a setup to remote start the engine in the event of a failure in the future. Appreciate all the feedback from folks on Tugnuts. Replacing the MDI box fixed the problem for now but I didn't know that some of them had a recall which I didn't check on as I was unaware. Hopefully it's not one of those!
 
It is logical that Heat and Vibration could be a contributing factor to the failure of these units but thankfully my original MDI Box (2014 R21) is still going strong with over 3600hrs. I have installed the push buttons for preheat and start but have yet needed to use them in an emergency situation.
 
Newf said:
It is logical that Heat and Vibration could be a contributing factor to the failure of these units but thankfully my original MDI Box (2014 R21) is still going strong with over 3600hrs. I have installed the push buttons for preheat and start but have yet needed to use them in an emergency situation.
Click to expand...
 
The only thing I'm unhappy about is that with the change of the MDI I lost the engine hours. Fortunately, at the beginning of the year I always take a picture of the hour meter so I at least have that to go back to. 3600 hrs! Wholly cow....You use your boat!
 
cdfdoug said:
The only thing I'm unhappy about is that with the change of the MDI I lost the engine hours. Fortunately, at the beginning of the year I always take a picture of the hour meter so I at least have that to go back to. 3600 hrs! Wholly cow....You use your boat!
Click to expand...
I do, but not as much as I use to due to fishing restrictions. Still manage 200-250hrs most years so still getting used a bit.
 
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