2 batteries won't charge, while two do underway

[JerryE]

Recently my engine (battery 1) and thruster (3) stopped charging off the alternator, yet the house batteries (2) receive 13+ volts and recharge nicely. This is seen with a voltmeter at the batteries or when using the helm gauge. If I jump the + terminal of the engine battery to the house it starts charging (of course) indicating it has a good ground. If I remove the jumper cable after a half minute #1 continues to charge as it should showing normal function. Same thing happens if I jump #2 to the house for a minute and then disconnect. Terminals are all cleaned and cells topped off.

What's going on here and how can I get my Engine and thruster batteries to charge without having to jump them for a few seconds? Haven't been near shore power to see if it happens on the 120v charger.

 

[GulfSailor]

Recently my engine (battery 1) and thruster (3) stopped charging off the alternator, yet the house batteries (2) receive 13+ volts and recharge nicely. This is seen with a voltmeter at the batteries or when using the helm gauge. If I jump the + terminal of the engine battery to the house it starts charging (of course) indicating it has a good ground. If I remove the jumper cable after a half minute #1 continues to charge as it should showing normal function. Same thing happens if I jump #2 to the house for a minute and then disconnect. Terminals are all cleaned and cells topped off.

What's going on here and how can I get my Engine and thruster batteries to charge without having to jump them for a few seconds? Haven't been near shore power to see if it happens on the 120v charger.

I don't know how a charging system is setup on an R25, but if it includes ACRs (Automatic Charging Relays), I would suspect an issue with those, either a bad unit or a bad connection.

 

[HRowland]

Jerry,

If the system is like the R27 you have two ACRs. The alternator is connected to the house bank, when the voltage gets above a set point the ACR is supposed to connect to the next battery. I believe the Engine battery is connected to the house via one ACR, then the engine battery is connected to the thruster battery via the 2nd ACR. So once the alternator is on-line, after a pause time the engine battery will be connected, then a little later the thruster battery will be connected.
If you have the Blue Sea ACRs there is a LED to indicate that they have connected the batteries. The LED can also indicate some fault conditions, check the Blue Sea manual. The ground connection on the ACRs is important, if this has opened then the ACRs will never connect the batteries.
When you look at the ACRs you will see heavy cables to connect the batteries and a couple of smaller wires. One is the ground, check that this has a good connection.
Again I am basing this on how my R27 is wired.

This is the Blue Sea info for the ACR: http://bluesea.com/category/78/79/produ ... erview/387

Howard

 

[JerryE]

Howard, Thanks for the great info! Questions: where are the ACRs. If they connect via 3 14 ga (approx) red covered wires actually labelled 1, 2 and 3 I see those wires bundle and go forward under the gunwale (I'm guessing) to behind the air conditioner??

I ran the boat charging the house batteries for at least 20-25 minutes and saw no charge going to the engine or thruster. From what you say maybe I just needed to run longer, till the ACR changed to the next bank. My house b at tries were depleted from the refrigerator running over nite.

 

[HRowland]

Hi Jerry,

On the 27 they are next to the batteries and connected with very heavy (1 Ga Red) wires. If the house battery is very low it can take a while before they activate. Per the Blue Sea specs the voltage needs to be over 13.6V for at least 30 seconds or over 13V for at least 90 seconds for the relay to combine the batteries. If your house bank did not get over 13V then the ACR may not have combined the batteries.
There is also an undervoltage lockout which I do not think would activate in your case since you were able to start the engine. If a battery is below 9.5V then the ACR will not combine the batteries. The LED on the ACR will flash rapidly if this is the case.

Howard

 

[knotflying]

On my R-27 the relays are below the battery switches. As Howard said, make sure all connections are clean. This is not a cure, but I believe if you throw the parallel switch on all the batteries will be connected and eventually equalize, so if one of the relays is working you will eventiually get all your batteries charged.

 

[HRowland]

On my R27 the Parallel switch connects the House and Engine batteries together, as Mike said this would bypass one of the ACRs.
The ACRs can have up to 3 connections in addition to the large battery wires. The ground (probably yellow) is the most important of the three. This is the minimum requirement to allow the ACR to operate. Check that this has continuity to ground.
There is an optional Start Isolate connection, this is not used on my R27. It can be used to force the ACR to discconect the batteries while cranking an engine.
The third connection allows a remote indicator LED to be used. Based on my reading of the Blue Sea ACR instructions this does not seem to be connected correctly on my R27, Ranger has this connected through a 3A fuse to the house battery. Perhaps a different ACR used in the past required a seperate power feed. When I get some free time I plan to install two remote indicator LEDs near the DC panel to monitor the ACR status.

Howard

 

[Levitation]

The ACR should be under the same hatch with the battery charger (and generator if you have)
Remove the hatch and set aside... As you are standing there contemplating the charger, look down at your toes handing over the edge of the hatch opening and there should be 3 BLue Seas ACR right under your toes...

They will have heavy gauge postive cables on them and a small black ground wire from the middle spade terminal to ground...
When the cables rise to 13.2 volts (either from the charger or the engine alternator) the ACR will engage and put all the batteries in parallel for charging from the engine...
There should be a third small relay to keep the three battery sets from going into parallel when the 110v AC charger is operating (check the archives for that thread)

 

[JerryE]

Problem seems resolved! I found the ACRs (boy I felt dumb about that) where Denny says they are, in front of the generator making them tough to access. So what else is new on an R25! Howard's analysis seems completely correct. My thruster battery was reading around 10.5 v upon getting back on the boat after isolating it via turning off the giant switch to it. After the battery settled, it was dead. I think this is why the ACR ignored it and charged the house batteries. Engine battery wasn't too healthy either.

I just changed out all four batteries. After a few minutes of the house batteries charging at 13+ volts, the engine battery started to charge followed by the thruster battery. I think the ACRs are working right again. BTW, here's my logic on not getting AGM batteries:

On a July 4th sale and I got 4 deep charge Group 27 flooded batteries from Sears for $95 each. West Marine probably has better batteries, but the warranty was exactly the same and their best price was $150 each–down from $180 each if i bought 4. I've ready every post on TugNuts about AGM batteries and wanted them, but the best price I could find was always around $250 each. I don't mind filling (with distilled water, of course) my batteries every month or so and I'll keep a battery book like Denny suggests using a hydrometer to monitor the cells to make sure they don't vary much in each battery. The convenience and longer life of the AGMs just weren't worth the extra $620, especially when I can add two Kyocera 140 watt panels ($640–Ranger uses a single 135 watt Kyocera I believe), Morningstar SunSaver Duo Controller with digital display like the factory uses ($143), plus $26 for the remote temperature sensor and assorted brackets and wire. Figure about $810 (yup, its cheaper than the factory if you do it yourself, even for two panels for that energy sucking refrigerator! So standard flooded batteries + $200 get me the solar rig, as opposed to four AGM batteries. Make sense to me.

 

[knotflying]

And you can get a deep cycle #27 at Walmart for $62.00 with a one year unlimited warranty.

 

[bbrh842]

I go the Wal-Mart route also. I replace all the batteries every three years. Ditto for my cars. Seems to work for me. It is the cheapest way out, and I have never had a dead battery, ever.