2022 R27OB bow thruster battery not charging?

[jeanguy]

Greetings all,

(I have the lithium house bank option on my boat.)

No issues with the bow thruster last year but on the first outing this year (a few weeks ago) the bow thruster was working for I'd estimate around 20 short bursts (never over a second per burst) and then stopped working. The light on the panel lights up, but turns off when I move the toggle either direction (no sound from thruster either).

Earlier this week I moved spots at my marina and had issues with the shore power so left the boat on solar for a few days while that was addressed. On return I found that the thruster was again working, but only for 2-3 short bursts and then back to the light only, which makes me confident this is an battery/electrical, not mechanical, issue. Once back on shorepower I returned today (2 days since turning shorepower back on) and the thruster is still dead, no bursts.

Normally (and all winter) the boat is on shore power charging. My question is is there something unusual with the thruster battery charging? Does it only charge off engine alternator or some other unexpected arrangement? I have not run the engine much since last season but assumed shore power would keep everything topped off. What can I check to make sure charging is happening? It definitely seems like being off shore power and on solar gave the thruster battery some amount of charge given that it worked briefly after 2 days of just solar.

Appreciate any and all insights into how I can get my thruster battery properly charged.

Thanks and regards,
Jean-Guy

 

[Submariner]

Greetings all,

(I have the lithium house bank option on my boat.)

No issues with the bow thruster last year but on the first outing this year (a few weeks ago) the bow thruster was working for I'd estimate around 20 short bursts (never over a second per burst) and then stopped working. The light on the panel lights up, but turns off when I move the toggle either direction (no sound from thruster either).

Earlier this week I moved spots at my marina and had issues with the shore power so left the boat on solar for a few days while that was addressed. On return I found that the thruster was again working, but only for 2-3 short bursts and then back to the light only, which makes me confident this is an battery/electrical, not mechanical, issue. Once back on shorepower I returned today (2 days since turning shorepower back on) and the thruster is still dead, no bursts.

Normally (and all winter) the boat is on shore power charging. My question is is there something unusual with the thruster battery charging? Does it only charge off engine alternator or some other unexpected arrangement? I have not run the engine much since last season but assumed shore power would keep everything topped off. What can I check to make sure charging is happening? It definitely seems like being off shore power and on solar gave the thruster battery some amount of charge given that it worked briefly after 2 days of just solar.

Appreciate any and all insights into how I can get my thruster battery properly charged.

Thanks and regards,
Jean-Guy

On the LE's with LFP, there is an ACR between the engine and thruster battery the facilitates charging when underway.
When on shorepower, there is a wire from the battery charger directly to each battery bank, House, Engine and Thruster. The charger cycles through each one individually charging them.

When your thruster battery doesn't work, it'd be helpful to know the battery voltage of thruster battery.

This is the factory electrical schematic.
https://www.letsgochannelsurfing.com/luxury-edition-lithium

This is the electrical schematic I created for the LE based on me crawling around in an LE and tracing wires.
https://www.letsgochannelsurfing.co...884097f88f4028bb58b2dbd937c4b6.pdf?index=true

 

[Submariner]

Also note, on the Luxury Edition with Lithium batteries (LFP), the solar controller doesn't touch the engine or thruster battery. (in my opinion, this is fine).

I completely re-wired my NW edition and converted it to Lithium. I have 400 watts of solar and none of it touches the engine or thruster battery.

 

[jeanguy]

When your thruster battery doesn't work, it'd be helpful to know the battery voltage of thruster battery.

I'm guessing the thruster battery is the one in the port compartment since that is where the switch and fuse are clearly labeled? Any hints on getting access to the battery terminals to test voltage? The battery posts appears to me quite inaccessible without removing the whole thing.

Thanks for the response!

 

[Submariner]

The thruster battery on an LE would be port lazarette, aft.

All you need is access to the + post of the thruster battery. The negative bus is exposed for easy access. But the + post is in the back.

If you ever pull that thruster battery out, get one of those Victron Battery Sense widgets. They are about $30. They’ll tell you voltage and temp of the battery via Bluetooth on your phone. Like having a volt meter on your battery all the time. I put one one on my engine and thruster batteries. Makes troubleshooting easier.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jcat2010]

Just a thought, but I think the 2022 LE has the Balmar smart shunt gauge ? There are two orange leads on the shunt, one for the engine, one for the thruster. IF they are wired correctly, you should be able to monitor the voltages via the Balmar gauge. I say If, because on some RTs the leads are there on the shunt - maybe 5" long, but they are not connected to the batteries. The Balmar also has bluetooth, like Martin mentioned with the Victron.

Or, as I've learned far too often this year, maybe your tug is wired completely differently.

 

[jeanguy]

Just a thought, but I think the 2022 LE has the Balmar smart shunt gauge ? There are two orange leads on the shunt, one for the engine, one for the thruster. IF they are wired correctly, you should be able to monitor the voltages via the Balmar gauge. I say If, because on some RTs the leads are there on the shunt - maybe 5" long, but they are not connected to the batteries. The Balmar also has bluetooth, like Martin mentioned with the Victron.

Or, as I've learned far too often this year, maybe your tug is wired completely differently.

That the Balmar has a bluetooth module and could (hopefully!) be wired to the starter and thruster batteries is news to me, I'll definitely check it out when I'm back at the boat later today. Appreciate the info!

 

[jeanguy]

When your thruster battery doesn't work, it'd be helpful to know the battery voltage of thruster battery.

Just got back from the boat. For starters the Balmar has neither a bluetooth module that I could find nor is it connected to either the engine or thruster batteries. Oh well.

However I checked the AC to DC Abso charger and it's reporting bank 3 (thruster) is at 12.9V and full (not charging). Same for bank 2 (engine) and the house lithium bank was also full at 14.1V.

This would indicate to me some other problem than the battery unless the battery is faulty? Anyone have any ideas what else might cause the thruster to not work with a full battery? I didn't check the fuse however the thruster worked briefly again 2 days ago which made me assume it was still working. However I'm not too familiar with ANL fuses -- might it be "half blown"?

 

[Submariner]

When your thruster battery doesn't work, it'd be helpful to know the battery voltage of thruster battery.

Just got back from the boat. For starters the Balmar has neither a bluetooth module that I could find nor is it connected to either the engine or thruster batteries. Oh well.

However I checked the AC to DC Abso charger and it's reporting bank 3 (thruster) is at 12.9V and full (not charging). Same for bank 2 (engine) and the house lithium bank was also full at 14.1V.

This would indicate to me some other problem than the battery unless the battery is faulty? Anyone have any ideas what else might cause the thruster to not work with a full battery? I didn't check the fuse however the thruster worked briefly again 2 days ago which made me assume it was still working. However I'm not too familiar with ANL fuses -- might it be "half blown"?

If the thruster fuse were blown, it wouldn't work. if the shear pin were broke, you'd hear a noise and the thruster wouldn't work. It could be the joystick/switch causing intermittent failure. Or it could be something more serious with the actual thruster motor itself.

 

[Jcat2010]

Although it's not going to help your immediate thruster issue, don't quit on the balmar yet. If there are two orange wires coming from the shunt(port cockpit lazarette, near the acr/dvsr) you can run wires to the starter and thruster to read real time volts. You can buy a Bluetooth dongle to plug into the balance to read all on your phone. Good luck

 

[jeanguy]

Although it's not going to help your immediate thruster issue, don't quit on the balmar yet. If there are two orange wires coming from the shunt(port cockpit lazarette, near the acr/dvsr) you can run wires to the starter and thruster to read real time volts. You can buy a Bluetooth dongle to plug into the balance to read all on your phone. Good luck

I do see the two orange wires, about 5-6 inches in length, fully insulated, hanging loose. What do you mean by plug into the "balance"?

Thanks!
Jean-Guy

 

[jeanguy]

If the thruster fuse were blown, it wouldn't work. if the shear pin were broke, you'd hear a noise and the thruster wouldn't work. It could be the joystick/switch causing intermittent failure. Or it could be something more serious with the actual thruster motor itself.

Was able to check the fuse today, it looks fine and tests at near-zero resistance from my multimeter. However the joystick light no longer lights up. Battery is still charged according to AC-DC charger. Wondering now if it is indeed the joystick assembly causing issues.

I appreciate all your insights!
Jean-Guy

 

[Jcat2010]

If you do a search for balmar smartgauge, you should find the installation drawings. One wire, I believe, is orange, and one is orange and black. One goes to the start battery, one to the thruster. Then you should be able to see the voltages of the other two batteries on the gauge. Apologies for the typo, was on small screen. I meant plug into the balmar. Both the shunt, and the gauge should each have an open port, into which the Bluetooth dongle can be plugged. Hope this makes sense.

 

[jeanguy]

If you do a search for balmar smartgauge, you should find the installation drawings. One wire, I believe, is orange, and one is orange and black. One goes to the start battery, one to the thruster. Then you should be able to see the voltages of the other two batteries on the gauge. Apologies for the typo, was on small screen. I meant plug into the balmar. Both the shunt, and the gauge should each have an open port, into which the Bluetooth dongle can be plugged. Hope this makes sense.

Ah that makes a lot more sense, for the life of me I couldn't figure out what you meant by balance 😀 . I think I will go ahead and get the Bluetooth module and hook up at least the thruster battery (since it's so close) and if I can figure out a good run across the middle lazarette the starter battery as well.

Thanks!

 

[jeanguy]

Just to update the thread on my current situation I took a direct reading from the thruster battery today and it was 13.5V. The AC-DC charger was reporting the same voltage and that the battery was full. During my time there I noticed there was a short charging phase initiated which bumped the voltage to 14.4V which I confirmed on the battery directly. It charged for only a minute or two before returning to 13.5V.

So this does not appear, at least, to be a dead battery nor a blown fuse issue. Seems to be, as Martin pointed out earlier, either an issue with the joystick assembly or the thruster itself, unfortunately.

 

[jeanguy]

Final update on this.

First of all a big thanks to Ivan and Tim from Ranger for coming out and diagnosing the issue. Turns out the inline (barrel) fuse holder between the thruster and joystick was faulty. Tim replaced with an inline ATC fuse holder and all was good again. In a bit of serendipity, I just happened to have an extra inline ATC fuse holder on hand from connecting the Balmar shunt aux voltage wire to the thruster battery earlier this week (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09H2XXR7V).

To any future readers of this thread, my main symptoms were a sporadically working thruster, and the joystick light worked intermittently as well, at varying intensities (sometimes bright, sometimes barely visible, sometimes not visible at all).

Thanks to all who responded to this thread!
Jean-Guy