AIS installation - advice?

[Gin]

I've read through as many of the AIS threads on the forum as I can find. I've researched a lot of different AIS brands and options. I have narrowed the field to the Garmin 600 and the Vesper XB-8000. The Vesper ends up costing a bit more. But the advantages it offers are filtering (so that you can see only what you want to see and declutter the screen) and wifi (so that you can see not only the AIS info on an iPad or similar mobile device, but also a lot of the other data running through the NMEA 2000 backbone). I'm leaning towards the Vespar . . .

Either way I go, I would love advice from those of you who have self-installed about the following. (Note: I'm installing on a 2013 Ranger Tug 27).

1) Where did you mount the transponder? Inside the box behind the helm station seems the most logical, but real estate there sure is limited.

2) Where did you mount the GPS unit? In particular, how many (if any) of you have tried mounting it internally? The tech folks at Milltech.com (who sure seem to know their stuff) said that GPS antennas work well under fiberglass and they recommend I start by trying to mount it somewhere in the cabin. (Note: the Vesper has an app that permits you to start things up and test the GPS reception while moving the antenna around. That will help with placement.) Just wondering if any of you have tried mounting the GPS receiver internally and, if so, how satisfied you are with that set up.

3) For those of you that mounted the GPS antenna externally, where did you mount it?

4) And related to question #3, how hard was it to bring the cable from the external GPS into the cabin and run the wire to the transponder? What route did you take?

5) Finally, getting to the NMEA 2000 backbone requires pulling the refrigerator, yes? Any tips or tricks on (a) hooking up to the backbone; and (b) pulling and replacing the refrigerator?

If any of you have any other experiences or advice/tips/tricks to share, I welcome it all. This forum is always the best resource (along, of course, with the wonderful folks at the Ranger Tug factory).

Thanks!

- Gini

 

[knotflying]

Gini,
I also did a lot of research and soul searching prior to going AIS. I bought it primarily because I was going down the Tennessee River system and wanted to stay clear of tow traffic etc. After weighing the pros and cons I went with AIS receive only and was very happy with the results. After taking in all the information my conclusion was that (a) I wanted to be able to see and contact the big vessels that I needed to avoid and I could do that with AIS receive, (b) there is no requirement for smaller vessels to have AIS so I was not going to see everyone anyway, (c) the installation was much easier because with AIS receive only you can use the existing antena. (C) bonus, less expensive. My experience with receive only worked out great. With all that said, I installed the black box behind the helm, not inside where all the wires are, right under where the access door is on the flat on the protrusion . You can't even see it unless you are laying down in the v-bearth. I drilled a 1-1/4 hole and finished it with a wire grommet and ran the wires into the "wiring nest" behind the helm. The Garmin AIS is a plug and play, so setup was negligible. The entire installation took me about 1-1/2 hours.
I hope this information helps.

Mike Rizzo

 

[Gin]

Yes, Mike. Very helpful! I've gone back and forth on the pros and cons of receive only. Part of what has me swinging to send and receive instead is our experience in the Christmas ships doing so much night time boating. It's a different world out there in the inky dark of night, and the advantages of showing up on via both AIS and radar seems worth the expense. And even the difficulty of the install. Or so I'm thinking now as I work through the last pieces of making a decision. Thanks for your tips on locating the transponder. That seems like a promising spot. I will check it out.

How hard was it getting to the NMEA backbone? Still wondering about that piece.

 

[knotflying]

Very easy to install onto the backbone. The unit should come with the "T" fitting. Just unscrew the end terminal, install the "T" then put the end terminal at the end of the new "T" . It is important to put the end terminal on. The GPS will automatically recognize the device.
Regarding recieve only VS transmit and receive. Here are my thoughts. As a pilot during instrument flight every aircraft is required to have a transponder and everyone is under air traffic control. Everyone is accounted for. The gaping hole with AIS is not everyone has it except the big guys, so you won't see who does not have it and they won't see you. The big guys who are required to have them are the ones you want to avoid and their maneuverability is such that you better get out of their way. They are usually very appreciative if you contact them in advance and in tight spots ask them how they would like the pass. My experience in a real busy port like Mobile, AL was, you are wasting your time trying to contact them, just get out of their way.
If I am traveling with other boats the DSC feature, once set up, allows you to interrogate them and see their location and contact them.
I also figure that technology changes so quickly that I wouldn't doubt that a unit will be coming out with built in GPS and the install for transmit/receive will be that much easier. In the meantime I'm half way there and am getting everything I actually needed in the interim. However, it would be a boring world if we all thought the same. 🙂
Mike Rizzo

 

[Gin]

All good points, Mike. The good arguments on both sides don't make the decision of what to buy (and how complicated an installation to take on) any easier. :!:

Gini

 

[knotflying]

My turning point was the installation of transmit. You have to add a VHF antenna and the GPS antenna. If you want to put the antenna for VHF so it is symmetrical with the other one you have to remove the wood assembly and valance over the window on the port side and then snake the wire over to the helm in addition to getting the side angle antenna mount installed. Then you need to pick a spot for the GPS antenna and snake the wire also to the helm. I thought all that extra work for something that does not provide 100% safety was not worth the trouble or cost. Your circumstances may be different so it may be worth it for you.

 

[WillieJ]

Hi Gini
I recently installed the Vesper XB-8000 on my 2012 R27. It is a fairly simple install when all was said and done. I will explain each component separately.
1. VHF antenna - I used the antenna that Ranger installed. It is on the cabin top rail on the starboard side above the galley. I purchased the VHF antenna splitter that Milltech Marine recommended. I installed it in the space behind the dash. I took the VHF antenna cable off the VHF radio and put it on the splitter. Then added a short VHF cable from the splitter to the VHF radio. I ran a 10 foot VHF cable from the third port on the splitter to the space under the galley sink (more on that later). I pulled the circuit breaker panel at the helm station and the refrigerator to make that job easier. The splitter needs power. I ran the power wire to the circuit breaker panel at the helm station and connected it to the circuit breaker for the GPS with an inline fuse.
2. I installed the AIS antenna on the cabin top. I did not need the TV antenna that Ranger installed so I simply removed it and used it's mount to mount the AIS antenna. I did have to remove the smoke stack/mast assembly to run the AIS antenna wire into the boat. I followed the TV antenna wire into the center of the cabin top. Then from inside I loosened the ceiling panel and routed the AIS antenna wire to the starboard side wire run. It is the vertical "post" in the galley with the lamp mounted to it. The AIS antenna wire was run down that hollow "post" to the space behind the sink.
3. I installed the AIS unit itself behind the sink. It is at the top of the panel and is tucked up behind the sink in an otherwise not very useful space. The AIS antenna wire and the VHF wire were connected to the AIS unit.
4. The AIS unit needs to be connected to the NMEA2000 backbone. It is behind the refrigerator. Simply remove the terminating resistor on the end. Attach a new T and replace the terminating resister. I used a 6 foot NMEA2000 cable because I had one. A shorter one (3 foot) would probably be OK.
5. The AIS unit needs power. The Vesper comes with a power/data cable. I routed that cable to the circuit breaker panel at the helm station. I connected the red power wire to the GPS circuit breaker with an inline fuse and the black ground wire to the GPS ground wire with a Y connector. The rest of the wires in the power/data cable are unused.

So the question is "why did I mount the AIS unit under the sink". I originally installed it behind the helm station. Everything went well until I did a sea trial and engaged the auto pilot to steer a preset route. When the auto pilot (Garmin) was steering the boat was making fairly aggressive S turns every 20 seconds or so. When I unplugged the power to the AIS the auto pilot worked fine. I spoke to the folks at Milltech, checked a few things they suggested but no change. They talked to the folks at Vesper and concluded the AIS unit was too close to the back of the Garmin GPSMap 740 chart plotter. With some further checking it was discovered that when the AIS was powered down I had a GPS error on the chart plotter of about 9 feet. When the AIS was powered up I had a GPS error on the chart plotter of about 45 feet. The S curves the auto pilot was steering were caused by that error. The GPS was putting the boat in a different place (45 feet one way then another) every time it updated. The auto pilot was trying to stay on the route line and every time the GPS updated it thought it was off the route line and made a correction causing the S turns. I moved the AIS unit to the space behind the sink and the problem went away and my GPS error is back to 9 feet. The boat steers a preset route perfectly again. I don't know the cause of the problem but the folks at Milltech and at Vesper suspect that the Vesper AIS unit put out some type of interference that caused problems when it was so close to the chart plotter. Originally the AIS unit was mounted about 3 inches away from the back of the chart plotter. I am sure the folks at Milltech remember me since we sorted out the problem sometime in early November. They were very helpful and easy to talk to.

I love the Vesper AIS. I can see the other guys and they can see me. I still do my best to avoid commercial folks and the Puget Sound ferries but if I miss something I have increased my chances of someone seeing me. I really like the Vesper wifi feature. I use an iPad with the iSailor app as a second chart plotter. The Garmin 740 has a small screen. Using the Garmin and the iPad allows me to have a "split screen" where one is zoomed in and one is zoomed out. It also allows passengers to have their very own chart plotter screen to play with. All together I would buy the Vesper again and would recommend Milltech.

I am happy to answer any questions.
Bill
Unzipped³

 

[Gin]

Hi Bill.

Wow! That is so helpful!! I am still leaning towards installing it myself, and your post may be just enough to seal the decision. With everything I fix or install, I understand the boat's systems that much better. You worked through the issues in a resourceful way -- including the location of the transponder. And I so appreciate the info about how you hooked up power to both the splitter and the transponder, and the length of the NMEA cords, etc. That kind of detail helps avoid time consuming (and frustrating) missteps and false starts.

Thanks so much for sharing your experience and taking the time to write it up in such detail.

If I have questions, rest assured I won't hesitate to ask. Thanks again!

Gini