Batteries in Winter

[SarahD]

I have a new R23 and Peter is trying to help but maybe the factory already knows:

My boat is stored in unheated shed in Rochester NY . I can charge batteries now and then but marina will not let customers leave boats plugged in for season. I am too old (81) to remove batteries. Marina is closed off season. I disconnected heavy yellow ground cables (only) from batteries, but then I can't charge batteries once a month or so.

If I leave grounds on (for occasional charger use) and shut off everything, there is still light current draw from radio memory and who knows what else.

My boat has inverter, charger and solar panels.

What is the easiest way to eliminate ALL battery draw and still be able to plug in the charger monthly for a few hours?


Also I noticed, with batteries connected, but all switches off there is an occasional one or two second "whir" from aft somewhere. The kind of sound raising an outboard would be like (engine battery switch is of course off)

Basically, I need to stop ALL current draw yet be able to just plug in 120V every month or so to keep batteries alive. I thought about pulling fuses, but would not know which ones.

Thanks

 

[captstu]

The batteries should be fine without charging all Winter. Just top them off in the Spring.


Stuart Bell
Ranger 25: Shearwater
(561) 352-1796

 

[ixlr8]

I believe that occasional 'whir' noise is the bilge pumps running to check to see if there is any water. I have the same thing on my 2018 27OB. If it is like my 27OB, you have a fuse panel that is powered directly from the battery. The bilge pumps, radio memory, CO2 monitor and two other items are on that fuse panel. Where my boat is I can't plug into 'shore power' so I pulled all those fuses to minimize any drain on the batteries. My Webasto diesel heater is the only item still connected to the batteries and I am expecting the solar panel will keep the batteries charged. The batteries are pretty buried on my boat and I don't feel like fighting to pull them out to disconnect them. If your boat is outside, and you keep your solar panel clear of snow, you shouldn't have to worry about charging your batteries at all. As long as the batteries are properly connected.

 

[Osprey]

Deleted

 

[ixlr8]

Bilge pumps are directly wired to the house battery (on a R23, I believe) but they should only turn on if bilge water is present. Perhaps contamination on the water sensing component is causing short term pump operation.

The bilge pumps on my 27OB run every 2.5 minutes for a second or two. I was told by my dealer that they were checking for water. I have no idea how they do that. When I pulled the fuses for the bilge pumps, the noise stopped. The R23 may use the same bilge pump setup.

 

[BB marine]

Auto sensing bilge pumps come on approximately every 2 minutes running for a few seconds. The electronics is based on amperage load. If there is no water the pump amperage draw is very low and the pump shuts off. If there is water present the average load is higher and the pump runs until the amperage load decreases. These pumps are more suited for boats that take on water because of design. Open RIB's, Center consoles,Ski boats, boat styles that water infiltration is more likely this is a good design. I didn't know Fluid Motion was using this design pump.

 

[knotflying]

Disconnect all the wires to the batteries. Hint, zip tie each terminal wires together and label them. Also take a picture before you disconnect. Heat is bad for batteries, not cold. Without a charge they will be fine in the spring. Make sure you have the fuses out of the solar leads. Even with a little light there is power coming from them.

 

[Pilotnavigator]

While disconnecting all leads from the batteries will protect the batteries, you really only have to disconnect the negative yellow cables. Make sure the batteries have been on a charger for a few days then they will be fully charged. Doing this for the past three years and each spring the batteries each read 12.7 volts. Before purchase I changed the two factory batteries that came with the 21ec with AGM. All groups 27, One for the starter and three for the house. The two that reside in the engine bay are on end to fit. Lefroy the dealer wired them all up and installed the two extra house batteries in the port locker by the charger. My solar panel wire is fed into this same are and the positive connected to the last battery and the negative connected to the first house battery in the engine bay. Best to do it this way to make all batteries charge consistently.

 

[Osprey]

Deleted

 

[SarahD]

Thanks everyone for pitching in. It appears that there are numerous devices on a new R23 that are "hot" even with all switches off (electronic bilge pump sensor, radio memory, CO2 detector, etc.). Would be nice if all the "always on" fuses were clearly marked so you could just pull them in the winter when on the hard. Dealer recommends full charge and then disconnecting all battery ground terminal wires except any battery to battery ground jumpers which would not do anything. He feels good, fully charged batteries will be fine for winter storage.


THANKS AGAIN

 

[ixlr8]

Thanks everyone for pitching in. It appears that there are numerous devices on a new R23 that are "hot" even with all switches off (electronic bilge pump sensor, radio memory, CO2 detector, etc.). Would be nice if all the "always on" fuses were clearly marked so you could just pull them in the winter when on the hard.
THANKS AGAIN

IF you had the manual, IF one was available. I suspect it would be like my 27OB and would list all the items that are on the 24/7 fuse block, meaning they are on all the time. It should also tell you where this fuse block is hiding. On my boat it is behind a wood panel under the breaker box in the cave.
On my boat the 24/7 fuse block has 6 fuses in it, one is not used, the others are;
bilge pump 1,
bilge pump 2,
CO detector,
Stove switch,
Stereo Memory.

HTH

 

[SarahD]

Disconnect all the wires to the batteries. Hint, zip tie each terminal wires together and label them. Also take a picture before you disconnect. Heat is bad for batteries, not cold. Without a charge they will be fine in the spring. Make sure you have the fuses out of the solar leads. Even with a little light there is power coming from them.

Anyone . have a clue where the solar fuses might be located on an R23. The control panel is lit but there is a clear plastic cover over the boat and a large roof light not far away so some light is definately hitting the panels

 

[Osprey]

The controller manual recommends that fuse(s) should be installed in the positive leads no more than 12" from the battery posts. So look in the battery compartment.

 

[SarahD]

Posting on Tugnuts can be a learning experience for some of us. Prior to reading ixir8's last post I had never heard automatic, "water present test", bilge pump operation. I did a quick search "automatic bilge pumps" to learn that Rule does make such a pump. If the current draw is low, meaning no water, the pump turns off after 2.5 minutes. Higher current is an indication of pump load, i.e. water present, in which case the pump continues to run until the current becomes low. I follow BB marine's comments that such pumps are more suited to open boats. If my tug leaked to the extent that a water present test was required every 2.5 minutes I would be seriously looking for the water source. I would not venture more than spitting distance from the dock until I found and corrected the source. On my 2011 R27, which has an if water only automatic pump action, frequent pump action acts as an indication of a developing , possibly serious, water intrusion issue.
I cannot imagine trying to sleep aboard with a bilge pump hammering away every 2.5 minutes all night. Had my tug been factory equipped with a 2.5 minute pump, the pump would have been replaced as a priority issue.
Since my previous post, as seen above, I developed a theory that the frequent pump action reported by SarahD might have been caused by a slowly leaking anti-back flow valve located in the pump's output line. So much for my theory, wrong again. Could all my musing above be simply "sour grapes"?

Keep in mind that my boat is inside on the hard. I can't imagine where any water might come from. But will take a look. The R23 swim platform/motor mount is hollow and I think there might be a pump in there. It has a drain plug which I took out for the winter. Also removed the second drain plug at bottom of transom

 

[SarahD]

After all this discussion I decided I would disconnect the battery ground cables----the yellow fat ones and the miscellaneous smaller ones that are hot wired.

With four batteries there are multiple fat yellow ground cables, several just going from one battery to another. The question is is there a single terminal ground point where all grounds meet ground? That would make it possible to prhaps disconnect just ONE yellow cable and all of them would disconnect from ground. One would of course look for and disconnect (or pull fuse)the small ground wires which are on some ground terminals for example bilge pumps

 

[Matty]

On our R27 you would never hear the bildge pump check every 2 1/2 minutes. It only lasts a few seconds and you would need to be outside to hear it. So not at all a problem. Good safety protection.

 

[Pilotnavigator]

Safer to disconnect all negative cables from each battery. That way they cannot interact with each other. If one battery develops a bad cell it can take all others down. Once all negative cables are off the red positive lines are dead. Does not matter the state of any switches. All direct connected devices like the pumps are dead.

 

[SarahD]

After all this discussion I decided I would disconnect the battery ground cables----the yellow fat ones and the miscellaneous smaller ones that are hot wired.

With four batteries there are multiple fat yellow ground cables, several just going from one battery to another. The question is is there a single terminal ground point where all grounds meet ground? That would make it possible to prhaps disconnect just ONE yellow cable and all of them would disconnect from ground. One would of course look for and disconnect (or pull fuse)the small ground wires which are on some ground terminals for example bilge pumps

If those cables weren't so stiff , I would be highly tempted for next winter to determine which of the many "yellows" actually go to ground (as opposed to just jumpers) and install rotary switches, (as on the plus side) so I could totally disconnect all batteries merely by shutting off such "ground switches" without messing with removing nuts.