batteries over winter

[terraplane]

I tried to locate a reference for this, no luck.

I usually keep boats in the water over winter. This year my Ranger 25 is "on the hard" here in Rock Hall.
Our winter temps usually bottom out around the 20's F...with a rare day or two in the teens.

My boat is full winterized..but the batteries are not out of the boat, and there is not an electrical source to charge .
The question: Will this harm the batteries?

(In previous boats i have not had any problem as along as the batteries were full charged before winter and the water topped off...)

tom

 

[Doug in Williamsburg]

Terraplane,

Uncharged batteries can freeze once they loose their charge. If you cannot charge them it is best to remove them.

--Doug

 

[Snug Tug]

I left the batteries in the boat for the first two winters (in New Jersey) without a problem. The boat started right up in the spring without even charging the batteries. (This fall we took the boat down the Intracoastal to Florida, so freezing should not be an issue this winter!) The only issue I had the first year was that the generator/thruster battery was losing charge over time. Turned out that the stereo radio and electronic control for the bilge pump both draw small amounts of power even when they are not on (the stereo needs to maintain the memory for the channels, the electronic bilge pump switch needs some small amount of power for the electronic water level detector). Surprisingly, the stereo main power comes from the house battery, but the "keep alive" power for the stereo memory comes from the thruster battery. Anyway, I disconnected the cable at the thruster battery terminal, and all was well from then on. Opening the switches for the house battery and the engine battery seemed to disconnect them from everything without having to remove the battery cables. (Note that some boats may be wired differently, in mine, the bilge pump electronic control and stereo "keep alive" are from the thruster battery.) I've added a second bilge pump which runs off the house battery, but it uses a float switch to turn it on, not an electronic module, so it doesn't draw any power unless it actually runs. The safest thing would be to be sure all the batteries are fully charged and then disconned the cables so that nothing would run them down over the winter.

That said, it's still probably "best practice" to remove the batteries, but it's a lot of work and I don't bother. If a battery was "weak" at the end of the season, I might consider removing it so it wouldn't go dead and freeze. So far all the batteries seem to be fine. The other alternative is a solar panel charger to keep them charged over the winter, but that involves some work to set up too. You have to choose the approach that works for you and accept the risks. Even removing the batteries has risk--of dropping one or throwing out your back lifting them off the boat!

 

[rt11002003]

I charge the batteries and disconnect them.

Gene

 

[Levitation]

Get a solar cell they market for automobiles... Disconnect the boat positive lead and put the solar cell across the battery(s)... It will keep the battery charged without losing water...

denny-o

 

[terraplane]

Denny,
Could you tell me a little more about the solar cell idea? Sounds like a plan.

tom

 

[Levitation]

Tom, what can I say? There are vendors for automobile solar cells that are intended to be thrown up on the dashboard and plugged into the cigarette lighter to keep the battery charged... I have on I've used for years... It works just fine.. Let me do a quick search here.. OK, 0.019 seconds later, BATTERYSTUFF.COM IMoB, $37, in stock...

cheers

denny-o

 

[terraplane]

Denny,
Thanks.
As a retired teacher (even worse, college professor) anything beyond a battery powered toothbrush is a
NASA challenge.

tom

 

[Levitation]

bump

Well, got to the battery post issues finally...
I found corrosion on the one negative post on the house batteries (boat built in the fall of 08) when I got it back to Michigan last July... There is a #14 black lead coming to that post (with a printed tag that says 'battery') and it was just a ball of green fur... I had Andrew send me a new heavy jumper as the tin plating on the 1-0 jumper fitting was gone exposing the copper..
Unfortunately, the jumper they sent is 3 times too long and 'yellow' to boot, not matching the black for the negative circuits... So, I opted to grind and polish the oxidized fitting and reuse... I unbolted all the fittings and shined them up then greased all mating surfaces with silicone dielectric grease and re-clamped them (auto store has little packets of dielectric grease marked for spark plug boots, etc. for $1.13 - one will do ya)...
While I had the jumpers off so I could get to the cell plugs, I opened the batteries and watered them... It took a full gallon of water to top them off - no plates were exposed, but you should water them twice a year (pia because of the cables)... A small cats paw carpenters tool works great for popping the plugs - mine is about 5 inches long...
After the wiring was back in place I used a spray can of battery terminal protector (red)... Did two coats about a half hour apart...

Two issues popped up in doing this maintenance chore... There are lebenty seben auto style fuse holders scattered about the battery compartment and not a one is marked (arrrgggghh) This is messy, non functional, and does not meet current international requirements...
And the bottom of the battery and generator compartment is plywood... I cannot tell what support it has underneath... Why I am concerned is that I am thinking of adding a pair of T6 golf cart batteries to the empty generator compartment and wondering if the floor will hold it...

denny-o

 

[Capt. Chris]

Hi Denny,

Did you use distilled water to top off the batteries?

Mineral content in "Tap" water varies from region to region. Where I live, our well water is high in iron.
Distilled water has zero, or negligible mineral content.

Chris

 

[Capt. Wanabe]

What is "topped off"? Is it possible to overfill the cells?

Frank

 

[j&lgray]

You can over fill the batteries but put enough in so water touches the bottom of the plastic column and you are good.

I have converted the 12 volt deep cycle house batteries to four 6 volt batteries. Ranger did a great job in building the storage areas-they are very stout. On our boat, I ended up putting 2 of the 6 volt batteries on the starboard side of the boat to equalize the weight. Weighing 60 pounds each, that was 240 pounds that needed to be carefully distributed.

 

[Levitation]

answers:
I use RO water... I maintain many batteries between the farm tractors, cars, trucks, dozers, planes, boats, etc. and I have used RO water from our kitchen for the past decade... Works for me... And if you are buying 'distilled' water at the local supermarket, look closely at the labels as it is 90% RO water these days...

Yes, you can overfill a battery... There is a 'well' in the opening, just bring the fluid up till it touches the bottom of the well.. As the battery heats up during use the fluid expands and you need the head space to keep it from overflowing..

discussion:
OK, glad to hear a vote that the floor of the battery/generator compartment will handle more batteries if necessary... I am planning on putting a Honda EU2000 generator out on the swim platform along with a 20# propane tank, probably towards the port side, so the extra batteries may yet wind up in the starboard locker for balance...
The plan at this point is to use the new battery set as a back up to the factory house set, with its own switch and use solar panels to keep it topped off... The drill would be to turn off the factory house set when it reaches 50% charge, and turn on the back up, and vice versa...

I pulled the fish tank out of the rear cockpit yesterday and took the teak doors and frames off the base cabinet so I can sand and refinish... The boat is barely over a year old and the varnish is peeling (?)... We are going to put a canvas enclosure over the cockpit so I am thinking that regular boat varnish will last without going to two part urethane... Opinions?

The reason for pulling the tank is to survey the situation... With the tank in place you cannot open the hatch cover over the steering gear completely upright... I am mulling over shortening the bottom of the 'tank' which will give more headroom for servicing the steering and allow the hatch cover to stand upright - along with removing the center pillar between the two doors... The revised tank will become dry storage...

denny-o

 

[Capt. Wanabe]

Denny,

The boat is barely over a year old and the varnish is peeling (?)... We are going to put a canvas enclosure over the cockpit so I am thinking that regular boat varnish will last without going to two part urethane... Opinions?

I suspect asking about finishes for brightwork is going to be like asking about best anchors but I have a vested interest as my boat is also 1 year old and with seriously failing varnish. I tried the internet and found that several locations frequently sited Epifanes as an excellent varnish. One scientific sailor actually bought nine different varnishes, covered some teak, and put it outside for a year to see which was the best. No clear winner. The best information I have is from an article in Good Old Boat, issue 68, 2009, Beautiful brightwork. The whole article is worth reading but there were two great take-homes: 1)Two-part urethane, Bristol Finnish, outlasted the competition by a large margin, and 2) the sailor that was the inspiration for the article made the brightwork his wife's responsibility. That would be the genius that is the biggest time-saver of all!

Frank

 

[j&lgray]

I refinished the double teak doors in the cockpit with Sepatol, that was bought at West Marine on the recommendation of a veteran boater. Now, a year later, it still looks it was done yesterday. Best teak product I have used in 20 years of doing teak.

 

[Levitation]

I ordered some Epifanes clear gloss single part varnish yesterday - done deal...

denny-o

 

[Levitation]

I don't remember if I posted this URL for batteries to this group or not - shucks, I am unsure of what was for breakfast...
Anyway, this is an excellent and readable tutorial on the care and feeding of lead acid batteries...
If you read this tutorial several times and get the info down, you will become the marina battery guru...
I think that Andrew should make the link to this URL a sticky on the home page...

http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm

Inexpensive meters will read off a few tenths of a volt usually... I use a Fluke meter, expensive but worth it for my many electronic projects - and then I use the FLuke to compare to the $5 specials from Harbor Freight that I throw in the toolbox on the boat and use a Sharpie pen to write the 12 volt correction for that meter on the back of it...
If you have access to a good meter use it to compare to your cheap meter and note the correction value...

Notice that the few tenths of a volt variation when the battery is approaching the 50% state of charge, means a big difference in the actual percent of discharge... So, taking care in calibrating your meter - and in putting the battery to rest for an hour before measuring - makes for a more accurate estimate of battery charge, and in the end more discharge cycles before an expensive battery needs replacing...

denny-o

 

[tim&kim]

We re-finished ( we being Kim ! ) our doors with a product called "Le Tonkinois Marine No.1 "....amazing results....the doors were done last June and still look better than new....bright high gloss finish...the stuff is kinda expensive though and hard to find. It was recommended by a high end furniture maker.

Tim and Kim
R25 "big attitude"
Gibsons, B.C.