Battery Charger/Inverter replacement

[Trisailor]

Many thanks to all on the forum for all the information here about the electrical systems on our boats.
At long last the installation of a new battery charger and inverter is done. As posted here last fall the Promariner combi 1500QS on my R27 failed. The transfer switch functionality quit working – no output, ac input was good, just no pass through for battery charger or inverter function.
Since then, a separate Kisae 3 bank charger and Kisae 2000w PS inverter have been installed. Yesterday was the final QA and light off of the new system. The original AC wire run from the AC panel to the Charger inverter was rerouted to the new charger mounted under the “desk” in the cave. Discovered along the way:
1. The Combi had been worked on before – an additional external fan was glued to the case of the combi - parasitic draw running all the time the battery was on to the inverter, maybe internal fan failed?
2. Prior to my ownership the inverter had been disconnected from the rotary switch at the helm and connected directly to the secondary bus. This caused some weird indications on the AC panel when the new inverter was first turned on and caused a bit of head scratching why the indicator light on the rotary sw wasn’t lighting up. I reconnected to the switch.
3. The new inverter, both smaller and lighter, located in the aft port cockpit locker is better protected from overflow from the hatch scuppers and frees up a little more space for some storage.
4. Still to install, auto switch to disable ACR’s when shore power plugged in.

 

[Cutwater28GG]

congrats!

curious as you were replacing both whether you considered the victron energy combined charger/inverter unit?

 

[BB marine]

Knock on wood the system you installed has worked flawless for me. I still have not changed the ACR's I need to do this for better charging efficiency. I gave a short electrical seminar at the SWF rendezvous this winter. I spoke with Promariner before hand to get information about the 1220,1230, and 1250 charger as to its charging capabilities. The charger can maintain 3 batteries banks separately as long as the ACR are not closed. So there is merit to doing this. There is a simple way of doing this based on information that Stwendl posted on your thread. viewtopic.php?t=14286#p95275. He stated there is an output on the charger that provides low voltage that can be used to disable the ACR while the charger is on. Run a wire from the RJ11 port to the start isolation terminal on the ACR this will open the ACR. My plan originally was to open the ground. The only variable with Stwendl method is there any repercussions of having the start isolation activated for hours on end. This is a question I will ask Blue sea's before doing this. Sounds like your getting through the change over quite well. The positive component of this is you will be much more familiar with the electrical system.

 

[iggy]

Knock on wood the system you installed has worked flawless for me. I still have not changed the ACR's I need to do this for better charging efficiency. I gave a short electrical seminar at the SWF rendezvous this winter. I spoke with Promariner before hand to get information about the 1220,1230, and 1250 charger as to its charging capabilities. The charger can maintain 3 batteries banks separately as long as the ACR are not closed. So there is merit to doing this. There is a simple way of doing this based on information that Stwendl posted on your thread. viewtopic.php?t=14286#p95275. He stated there is an output on the charger that provides low voltage that can be used to disable the ACR while the charger is on. Run a wire from the RJ11 port to the start isolation terminal on the ACR this will open the ACR. My plan originally was to open the ground. The only variable with Stwendl method is there any repercussions of having the start isolation activated for hours on end. This is a question I will ask Blue sea's before doing this. Sounds like your getting through the change over quite well. The positive component of this is you will be much more familiar with the electrical system.

I am very interested on how you are disabling the ARCs! You connecting to the ground wire of the ARCs. So from what your saying when the charger is off the Temperature ring terminal is at 12V NEG. With the charger on, its more positive to disable the ARCs. YES?

Years ago I did call Promariner just on this point. The said, yes, the ARCs will close (which I knew) and the charger will just see one big bank and that would not be a problem at all.

 

[BB marine]

I am very interested on how you are disabling the ARCs! You connecting to the ground wire of the ARCs. So from what your saying when the charger is off the Temperature ring terminal is at 12V NEG. With the charger on, its more positive to disable the ARCs. YES?

Years ago I did call Promariner just on this point. The said, yes, the ARCs will close (which I knew) and the charger will just see one big bank and that would not be a problem at all.

There are a couple ways to disable the ACR's

(1) remove the ground from the ACR. There is a ground wire that must be connected for the ACR to function . No ground ACR is open. Thought process install a relay that closes when the engine is running and opens when engine is off .Ground connected when the engine is running and all batteries are charged when battery voltage reach 13V. ACR open when engine is off.

(2) The ACR as a start isolation terminal. This normally is wired to the starter solenoid. Reason: if ACR's are closed, house batteries and start batteries are connected. The quick voltage drop from starting the engine could effect sensitive electronics. The timing of the normal ACR opening is 10 seconds after the voltage drops to 12.35 or 90 seconds after 12.7V. With the isolation terminal wired to the starter solenoid as soon as the starter is activated the ACR opens.(Fluid Motion does not use this feature) Using this isolation terminal and wiring it to the RJ11 port based on Stwendl there is available low voltage there that can be wired to the isolation terminal. When the battery charger is turned on the low voltage from the charger will open the ACR's. I have not tested this circuit but it may be a good option.

Depending on which charger is installed determines whether it is needed to isolate the ACR's while charging the batteries. The inverter/charger only has one output to charge the batteries it is wired to the house battery. This charger requires the ACRs to be functioning as design. The 1220,1230,1250 have three outputs to charge each battery bank separately based on the battery condition. If ACR's are closed then it is charging all the batteries the same. Its not a big problem but may change the life expectancy of the batteries. It is taking away some of the benefits of the charger. there is an advantage to disabling the ACR's with this charger.

 

[iggy]

Sounds a bit complicated! I put in a switch to remove the ground from the ARCs. But I wanted something that more automatic.

I was thinking of a 120v relay, maybe a S.S.R. type. When the shore power is turned on, the relay opens and so the ARCs will open too. No 120v, the relay closes and ground is restored.

 

[NorthernFocus]

...The only variable with Stwendl method is there any repercussions of having the start isolation activated for hours on end...

I've been using the start isolation relay on the ACRs almost continuously for five years now with no evident downside. The ProMariner charger(three "independent" outputs) that came with the boat would never turn down to maintenance mode with the ACRs closed. It was basically burning the batteries up. So when on shore power I manually activate the start isolation feature and disengage it when the engine is running. Making it an automatic function is one of those projects that just never works its way to the top of the to-do list.

 

[NorthernFocus]

...I was thinking of a 120v relay, maybe a S.S.R. type. When the shore power is turned on, the relay opens and so the ARCs will open too. No 120v, the relay closes and ground is restored.

This is what I have designed and bought all the parts to implement(maybe $20 worth of parts). My plan was to wire it into the 120V supply to the battery charger. Parts sitting on the shelf for several years now waiting for some love. In the mean time a test lead with alligator clips is getting the job done.

 

[Trisailor]

Thanks Brian, yes I have become more than intimate with the wiring on my boat, in fact have given portions very colorful names...Thanks again on your suggestions and comments on previous posts, I learned a lot.
Iggy, Since the Kisae does not have the Promariner capability (or price) to disable the ACR's. I have asmall relay/switch from Amazon (SPACE AGE ELECTRONICS SSU-PAM-1 10A) that I will wire in the battery charger power wiring to open the ACR grounds while AC voltage present and reconnect when I disconnect from shore power. Just like Northern Focus mentions with his r=test lead/alligator clip. which is also a solution I'm considering.
Cutwater 28GG, I looked at all the options, such as the victron combined unit, Magnum combined unit, a replacement promariner combi unit, then multiple separate charger/ inverter choices. Basically I chose the separate units for price, weight and reliability perspective. If either unit fails, it's a single unit replacement, not a whole expensive unit. Promariner didn't want to have anything to do with trying to repair the combi unit, which they no longer manufacture. It's now a dust collector/space hog on my garage floor.
Again thanks to all on this forum for the many educational technical discussions/answers that helped during this process