Battery Issues

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mmcdonald47

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Mar 2, 2011
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Fluid Motion Model
C-26
Hull Identification Number
fmlr2517d112
Vessel Name
Walk-In-The-Water
I have a Ranger 25sc that I received in June. I had issues with the dock power on my lift and my batteries died. I have fixed the problem and recharged the batteries. However I have questions. On my old boat I had a switch for shore power, or generator, or off. Apparently this boat does not have this. I assume that once I plug into shore power and plug it into the boat that this suffices as shore power. I have a Honda 3000ei generator and I am also assuming that when I plug into the boat that this suffices also.

My question now is that I have a Morningstar remote meter and I only have the solar panel displaying and battery one displaying but on battery two there are just two lines. It has been like that since I received the boat but last night, I was in the forward berth and I noticed a red light showing in the third window to the right. You cannot see that at the helm. Is there something I need to do to get the house bank to show up? I cannot tell whether I am fully charged or not.

Also my Norcold is not coming on. Cannot tell if there is a fuse blown as there are no indications as to where the fuse is located, nor in the manual that I received on line. The manual that was sent to me, with the boat, is for a Ranger 21.
One other question is about the battery charger. Should this be on at all times when I am on shore power? I cannot find this in the instructions sent to me.
Thanks for any help!
mike mcdonald
 
Mike,
Having lived through some of this on my R-27 here are some pointers: For the batteries to charge while on shore power make sure the battery switches are on as well as the charger breaker.
The Morningstar gets tricky. Battery 1 is the house batteries and battery 2 is the engine. Whereas on the analog meter battery 2 is the house and battery 1 is the engine. Check the regulator connections on the Morningstar to the batteries and make sure the leads from battery 1 are going to the house and the leads on battery 2 are going to the engine battery. Now, to reset the Morningstar, to make sure it is working properly, do the following: Disconnect all of the wires leading to the regulator. Tape the ends on the leads so they don’t ground out. Also remove the remote wire. Remove the fuses from the leads that go to the Morningstar at the batteries. Now reconnect connect 1) the leads from the Morningstar regulator to the batteries 2) the solar panel leads in the center. 3) install the fuses back in the leads at the batteries 4) re-insert the remote meter cord to the regulator. The regulator should now be reset. Make sure the dip switches on the regulator are set properly for flooded ( if you have lead acid) and also for the Batt-1 90% Batt-2 10% ratio. My house batteries kept going dead. It turned out 2 cells were bad in one and one cell was bad in the other so if your batteries are not holding a charge check out the cells with a hydrometer.
As far as your refrigerator goes; there is a dial for settings in the rear, make sure that is set correctly and the switch is on at the DC panel.
GOOD LUCK!
Mike Rizzo
 
Thanks Mike for the info on the Morning Star. This makes sense now! Since my refridgerator is on the DC panel and all my gauges and bilges aren't working either. Don't know how you found all this out as this was quite a detailed narrative. Now I need to find out why my starting battery does not work. Doesn't the charger charge the weakest battery first or does it not even charge the start battery. I thought I read that it charges the house battery first and then charges any residual starting battery deficiencies. Will try to fix tonite. I have had it out every weekend and a bad storm came through and the power blinked on and off in my dock power panel and I had to repair that before I could get power to the boat to even get it off the lift. Went to use it this last weekend and was stymied as to why it would not work. I thought it had fried the battery charger as it was on during the storm hence my question as to how long to leave it on. Started the charger up again and all my house batteries came up and I started the engine and I assumed it was okay but I must have been pulling from the house battery and I assumed battery one on the Morning star was my starting battery. Since these batteries are hooked up this way, could I not charge that starting battery with my generator, after I check it out with a hydometer to make sure it's okay?

My boat's name is Walk-In-The Water but my grandkids called it Dead-In-The-Water. But is still looks pretty!
 
Mike,

One more thing, Mike R and I both had solar issues and he had told me that Morning Star's tech line was very helpful and I called about an error code E5- remote temp damaged or missing (I think). Anyway they had me do exactly what Mike told you to do and to also strp out the two terminals for the remote sensor that go on the battery post because I didn't have one. The two screws are at the end of the regulator. He said that a moist condition can cause resistance between the two terminals and give a false error code. I have had no issues since doing the reset and strap out.

Regards,
John DeCaro (R27)
 
John,

Thanks for the help. What would a remote sensor be used for? How would I know if I had one? My one concern with all of this is; If my batteries are labeled Start(1), House(2), & thrusters(3) and my battery feeds are all labeled 1,2,&3 and my panels read 1,2, & 3 why is the Morningstar backwards? I realize they have the solar panel on the left of the screen but battery one would should be the start battery and battery 2 the house. It just seems to make common sense.Wouldn't this be a condition the factory would install correctly, as they produce many boats or just a sheet of instructions to hand out with the package?

Mike
 
Mike,
If you look at the Morningstar regulator terminals you will see on one side a number 1 and on the other side a number 2. Morningstar doesn't really care which one you hook up to your house batteries, however the dip switch setting allows you to put 90% of the charge to battery 1. That is why you would hook up the number 1 side to the house. Quite frankly it would be less confusing if Ranger hooked up the analog meters to coinside with the morningstar. If you want to you could switch the voltmeter leads from the batteries to the analog panel meters and then the Morningstar and panel meters will match. Don't feel frustrated it took me 3 months of seaching, testing and phone calls to figure this all out.
The remote sensor John was speaking of allows you to put a temperature sensor in the battery compartment if it were not near the regulator. I posted detailed information on how to read the information for each battery on the remote meter. I can't remember the subject by try either solar panel or Morningstar in a search. And you are correct about the charging the regulator continually checks the batteries and if one is topped off it will put more charge to the weak battery. Also when you have shore power or are running the engine the charge indicator on the morningstar will read zero.
 
Mike,
Your comment about the engine starting even though the engine battery was dead impliesthat you would have had to have had the parallel switch on for that to happen. You should leave that switch off all the time unless you do have a dead battery and need to get the voltage from the other batteries. And as far as I know the parallel switch only joins the house batteries and the engine, not the thruster battery. Incidentally I also believe that Ranger has the batteries set up wih relays, so that if you have the swiches on to all batteries the thruster battery will also get a charge eventually from the solar panel since a circuit will open to allow voltage to flow to a battery if it is weaker than the others.
 
Mike M, (just to keep the Mike's straight)

Just to clarify the remote temp sensor topic, Morning Star told me that it was a bi-metal ring that goes on the battery post to give the actual temp of the battery. If you don't have the remote temp sensor the temp you are reading is from the regulator itself, usually in the battery compartment. He did comment that it should be ventilated, how I am not sure.

Regards,
John
 
Thanks everyone for all the help. I originally thought my house batteries were dead but after the explanation about the battery sequence on the Morningstar remote I realized that it must be my starting battery that was not showing up on the remote, which seemed to make sense since my DC panel would not turn on and bilges, refridgerator, and gauges along with trim tabs were not coming on. Before I reset the Morningstar remote. I pulled all leads off the starting battery to make sure I had no bleed over from my thruster battery or my house batteries and it showed I had 13.6. This is the explanation as to why I could start the engine. I called Andrew and explained the problem and there is a relay under the battery switches that had tripped. All it entailed was me moving a small lever up and the DC panel came on. So far so good. I then tried the steps taken that Mike had suggested, but the remote still will not pick up the starting battery. In fact I tried three times to ensure the I was doing it correctly. I called Morningstar on Friday but their technicians have not returned my call as of today. I will call them back but it is raining now and I do not want to open the battery hatch until it stops.

So I took the boat out and enjoyed a nice weekend aboard. Again thanks everyone for your help.
Mike McDonald
m/v Walk-In-The-Water
 
They do take a while to get back to you especially because you want to get it fixed. Be patient grasshopper.
JD
 
Hello Mike,

Are you still having a problem with the reset of the solar panel? If so give me a call at the factory and I can walk you through how to reset it. (253) 839-5213.

Thanks,
-Kenny
 
Kenny,
I am not having trouble with the solar panel. I am having trouble with the Morningstar remote. It shows my solar panel charging fine. It shows battery one (house) charging fine, however I assumed that this was the starting battery until I learned otherwise in this thread. Battery two (starting) does not show up at all. Only two dashes are on the screen and under this is a solid red light. I can only assume that the starting battery should show up on this screen, but it never has so I can not speak from experience. That is what I am trying to correct now.

Mike McDonald
 
Hello Mike,

I'd check the fuse at your engine battery. Should be a 30 amp in line fuse and it should be labeled solar. Let me know what you find. If you would please email me direct, kennymarrs@rangertugs.com. I check that email address ever day.

Thanks,
-Kenny
 
2007 21EC, how long can I keep the fridge running with the engine off and no shore power before the house battery gets too low? I would like to keep the fridge on over night when I am anchoring.
 
I learned this year while on the Desolation trip that I could have the fridge shut down at night. I was told that our fridge draws 2.5 amps per hour. The manual for the fridge says it will shut down when it senses your battery at 10.6vdc. I guess you need to know what your battery is capable of. I was also told that to charge the battery back up would require 2 hours of running the engine.

I am debating installing a second house battery, likely an AGM and replacing the one that came with the boat with an AGM. I left my fridge at 4 for the night which helped in killing the battery. I would suggest turning it down to 2 or something like that. This is my first boat so I'm not an expert on battery issues and the like, but I'm learning. Usually the hard way.

Dave
 
Dave,
You might want to check the manual for your charger. The charger may not support the AGM battery. And, if it does, it may not support a mixed bag of batteries (e.g. charging both flooded and AGM at the same time). It gets complicated, but to put it simply, each type of battery requires different stuff to charge and maintain the battery, and cannot simultaneously support multiple types of batteries at the same time. Generally speaking, your charger supports your starter battery which is flooded. If you want your house battery to be AGM, then you would have to install another charger to charge the AGM batteries. Non-flooded batteries cannot normally be used as starter batteries.
 
There's often confusion between AGM and Gelled electrolite (GellCells). AGM's are very accomodating and will charge with the same charger as wet cells. Most chargers will differentiate between Gells and Wets because they have very different charge and discharge rates. AGM's and wet cells can charge at similar rates.(AGM's can take very rapid re-charge and can discharge lower without damage. Some chargers will have separate settings for all 3 types and can optimize for each type, but I can't generally afford to turn to those pages in the catalogue. Before you mix AGM"s with Wet's though it is essential that they're tested and found to be in near identical condition...same goes for Wet/Wet and AGM/AGM though.

If you have the time/equipment and desire to be meticulous with maintenance, wet cells are dollar for dollar the lowest cost option and should perform well for many years. If you'd rather not spend the time, you can spend the money on AGM's. If buying batteries is enjoyable for you, go with gells. note, The freshness of a new AGM is very important, check the production date (esp on "sale"items) Unlike other batteries AGM's are shipped fully charged and if they have sat a very long time prior to selling they may have self discharged before the retailer "topped" them up. New Wets are stored and shipped dry and have electrolite added once they're sold.

Disclaimer... I'm not familiar with the highly complex DC systems found on the EC, 25,27,29's.I drive an R21 classic;2 batteries, one charger, one switch (1-2-off-both), one happy guy.
 
The confusion is with chargers, is there is a lot of confusion as to what they will and will not do. That is why I suggested for Dave to read his manual for his charger. I have had chargers that handled flooded, AGM and gel batteries differently and would not allow for them to be mixed. Dave did not mention what make/model charger he has, and Ranger changes makes and/or models of things from time-to-time.

Dave, if you do not have a manual, you can probably download it. If you have a ProMariner charger, you can download a manual here http://www.pmariner.com/category.php?CategoryNum=1

To make the confusion worse, I just found out there are now two types of AGM batteries - a standard and a high performance. And, they are handled differently with the charger.

Slackwaterjack is right though about the condition of your batteries. All of the batteries handled by a charger should be about the same age and condition. If one battery in your system goes bad, you should probably change out all your batteries. 🙁
 
My AGM charge response is mainly from conversations with the battery end of things (dealers, distrib., etc). There are millions of AGM batteries in everything from riding mowers to aircraft, very,very few of which need or recieve special chargeing. That said, If a charger manufacturer feels it neccessary to provide individual perfectly tuned AGM, flooded, and Gell circuits in their top of the line units...great. The better monitored and controlled the charger the longer the batteries will work at peak efficiency, especially if they don't get used often.


🙂 I will admit that I must have hit my TECH acceptance limit for the year...I'm still trying to figure out how a new 12 speed, 10 cycle (with overdrive?), watersaver, energystar,front load washing machine can tell the differance between grass, food, or grease stains but can't manage to clean anything as well as the old one it replaced. I can't believe they think washing one item at a time can save energy or water...but, I can't yet figure out how it can treat each item seperately all mixed in one load. On a more pleasant note, I have learned to accept that 12 speed blenders can't find room to include a "Margarita" setting....probably because they only seem to really work well on "high" anyways.
 
Along those lines Jack, I can't figure out why my new dishwasher now takes three hours to do a load, but is supposed to be much more energy efficient than my old one. I'm glad I don't have one on the boat.
 
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