Bilge pump question

[KARL]

Hello...I've checked all past threads on the subject of a non-working bilge pump, but in my case the pump has worked intermittently and now not pumping out. It is running when it senses high enough water or I use the manual switch on the panel so it is running, it's just not pumping water out. I think it may be a clogged impeller. My problem is that the pump is impossible to get to. My manual says that it is supposed to be a Johnson pump, 750 gph, but as you can see in the attached picture, or barely see anyway, it looks to me like a Rule pump with the blue strainer bottom. Also, there is an oval white pad of some sort directly on the bottom of the bilge...could I be looking at the original location of the Johnson bilge pump and for some reason the pump was replaced (by the previous owner) with a Rule pump and placed in the location that it is farther forward under the transmission? My question is, can other Ranger 27 Classic owners weigh in her and tell me if their bilge pumps are in this location and if not, where? I have not attempted to disconnect the discharge hose and see if I can wiggle the pump aft to attempt to clear the impeller. That is my next step. Thank you all in advance to any response to this.
Marc
2015 Ranger Tug 27
KARL

 

[watson1987]

I have an R31, and had the bilge pump in the same location fail twice. This looks like a similar pump to mine, it's the Rule model 27SA, which turns on every 2 minutes to check for water, but doesn't have a standard float switch. You said yours turns on when it senses high water, so perhaps it has a standard float switch model, which is the 27DA - they look the same.

Rule Automatic Bilge Pumps | Xylem US

Rule Automatic Bilge Pumps check for water every 2 ½ minutes and keep bilge water at the lowest level of any automatic bilge pump.

www.xylem.com

Either way, despite it not looking like it can be removed from under the prop shaft, it can on the R31, it's just really annoying. Hopefully yours is the same on the 27. Good luck.

 

[KARL]

Thank you for the info and your experience, watson1987. As a follow up, I was finally able to access the pump. As you warned, really annoying! As it turns out, it is a Rule 27DA with a separate float switch. No Johnson Pump. Not sure if the previous owner changed it or if it came from the factory as a Rule. Surprisingly, it was not clogged and is working just fine. However I have since been told by another source that the problem might be "too much head pressure" in other words, water that is held in the line by the check valve is too heavy for the pump to move when it starts to pump. Therefore, it is running but just not strong enough to push the water out of the hose. There is a check valve in line where the hose starts at the pump and I'm wondering if I remove it and install a check valve farther down the line where it is not running up-hill, whether or not that might work better. Has anyone else experienced this?

 

[Rode Trip]

Moving the check valve farther down the line will just result in more water flowing back into the bilge when the pump shuts off. I don't think it's a design problem as it works fine on most other RT's. I would start with cleaning the check valve, they can catch debris and and either restrict flow or allow it to flow back.

 

[sd1209]

Just make sure the pump impellers are actually moving when you hear the motor come on....Example: I bought a used R27 OB 7 mos ago.....None of the 3 bilge pumps were cycling every 2 minutes as designed (the kind by Rule that are designed this way to sense pressure/water).....But when turned on manually all 3 motors ran fine, I assumed the auto checking function every couple of minutes was just bad......Out of curiosity, I removed each from the mount, left them wired up and turned each on manually while I watched the impeller........2 of the 3 the shafts were broken, motor came on, sounded fine, impeller not moving.....so 2 totally broken bilge pumps, one that would not work automatically.....But just turning them on one would assume they would all work at least manually......So you really cannot check the operation of these type pumps (actually any other also) without watching to assure the motor is moving the impeller......IMO--terrible design by Rule....float switch, either external or internal, would be better......Seems the shaft is just not strong enough to withstand the stress of activating every 2 or so minutes 7/24....

 

[KARL]

Thanks for your responses. The pump works fine with the external float. I have removed it and checked it. It does operate and pump water out. Occasionally, however, it will run but not pump water out, the line is full of water being held back by the check valve, and I manually jiggle the line and/or the pump and water will start flowing again. Maybe I need to consider installing a more powerful pump. But space considerations under the shaft could be a problem.

 

[Jcat2010]

From the description you provide, something isn't making sense. Look in the pump manual, it should state the maximum lift that the pump is capable of. If the difference between the pump and the high point in the line is less than that, you're likely good on that end. Most bilge pumps have great lift capacity. They just pump less if the lift is too high.

The line is supposed to be full of water after the check valve, as stated elsewhere the check valve is there to keep water left in the hose from flowing back into the bilge.

By the statement that it pumps sometimes, but not others, especially wHen you jiggle things, I'm going to guess you have some corroded wiring somewhere, or a bad check valve.

Have you removed the check valve and cleaned it. Most a rubber duckbill style but sometimes they get stiff and won't open.

 

[KARL]

The lift is very short, less than 2 feet, and within the capabilities of the pump. As I mentioned, is does operate, just not actually pump water sometimes, so no corrosion problems, I've checked that. It's almost like the impeller is broken, but it's not, I've checked it and the pump does pump out out water most of the time when it operates. But sometimes it does not. I did inspect the check valve when I had it out and it looked fine, but I did not check to see if it was stiff and not pliable to make it not open sometime. Good idea on that one, I will pull it and check it. And replace it and see if that does the trick. Again thanks to all who have responded to offer suggestions to figure out this mystery.