Bilge Pump, R21-EC

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Stevan47

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Nov 25, 2013
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Fluid Motion Model
C-24 C
Non-Fluid Motion Model
Recently sold R21-EC
Anyone out there: Yesterday, while back home in the driveway, on the trailer, I was washing out the engine bay/bilge area with my fresh water garden hose. The battery isolator was in the 'OFF' position. I normally either remove the hull drain plug, or leave it in. In this case, I left it in, expecting the automatic bilge pump to cut in once the water level rose, as it usually does, noting the bilge pump is connected directly to the battery bank. The hose was lying in the bilge, full bore, pointing aft towards the bilge pump.

The pump did cut in and ran for about a minute and then cut out. The water level by this time was just near the top of the bilge pump, although I understand it is a submersible device and therefore should not be a problem. The high water alarm had not activated, although the level was still not high enough for this to occur.

I checked the battery isolator was still in the 'OFF' position. I then checked the bilge pump high water alarm and found it to be functioning when I tested it: all good there. The only related fuse at the main fuse panel is for the bilge pump/high water alarm. The bilge pump being connected directly to the batteries has its own fuse link, a 15Amp blade-type (located near the stbd battery, in a brown cable, and contained in a rubber protective sheath) and I found this fuse to be blown. I replaced this fuse and attempted to activate the bilge pump from the main control panel in the wheelhouse: nothing happened. Not sure what to do next and I can only think that somehow, coincidentally, water has got into one of three electrical locations: the bilge pump itself, the float controller located in the bilge, or possibly the float controller switch, which is located at the top of the bilge cavity, adjacent the shaft. I am also wondering if a blocked suction/inlet at the base of the bilge pump would cause it to overheat and/or blow a fuse.

I have not removed the bilge pump, the float controller or the float control switch as yet. Before I enlist the services of a marine electrics expert, can any of you Tug Nuts out there offer me some practical advice/suggestions? I really would appreciate your input and am happy to be criticised constructively.

Kind regards, Stevan
 
Post script to previous entry dated today: I have just managed to rotate the pump body of the bilge pump and extract the cartridge, with wiring attached. It is a Johnson 750 g/h type and the cartridge is a replaceable component. I have not yet powered up the pump motor, but I can now see a length of what appears to be nylon fishing line around the spindle, between the impeller shroud/blades and the motor/pump body. I will now try and remove the fishing line. Is it possible that this piece of fishing line could have caused the pump/motor to seize/stall and then cause the fuse to blow? Feel free to comment, please. Kind regards to all. Stevan
 
You found the culprit. The deck drains of a Ranger Tug drain directly into the bilge because they are below the waterline. They are not scuppers that drain overboard. This is an inherent disadvantage and a Achilles tendon of a Ranger Tug as any deck debris, leaves, fishing line flushes into our bilge. My primary and ongoing battle is ensuring a debris free bilge. Debris will impede the impeller and trip your fuse. I have a second bilge pump located in the forward bilge area just aft of the bow thruster in the event the primary bilge fails. This will only work if moored and boat is level. My third pump is a West Marine mechanical bilge pump and a recent as last month had to deploy this when my primary failed due to debris and the forward pump was not engaged as the boat's pitch while underway is favored aft keeping bilge water in the aft bilge area. The large hand pumps do an amazing job of quickly dewatering.
 
Thanks for that piece of advice, mate. I have managed to unwind the piece of nylon fishing line, about 25cm in length and of about 15lbs breaking strain. It looks like it has been there for some time - probably tightened up with use. The impeller turns okay so tomorrow I will reinstall the cartridge, insert a new fuse and give it a whirl. Will post the results. Kind regards and many thanks once again. Stevan
 
Stevan,

On our boat the manual switch has a separate fuse behind the dash. Don't know it the 21 is the same. Make sure you check that out as well if the pump still doesn't work from the manual switch.

Curt
 
GA-Midnight Cruise hit the nail on the head. That bilge pump can create a lot of havoc. I had one (on my second R21EC) that kept blowing fuses during a winter with a lot of storms. I had the boat in an open slip. At least twice, when I went to check on the boat, the water level was almost to the transmission. It had an electronic sensor. Cleaning the sensor/pump didn't help, nor did cleaning the bilge (thinking maybe something was touching the case causing it to activate). Finally, put in a huge, new pump. Had to disassemble it to get it in the bilge, then reassemble it. The new pump stopped my problem. I've found pumps with water level sensors inside to be more reliable, especially if there's trash in the bilge. The housing must be kept clean, oil can block the sensor reading.
 
Thanks once again, everybody who has contributed so far. I intend to replace the fuse, after thoroughly washing-out, drying and vacuuming the bilge area, reinstall the pump cartridge into the barrel and then give it a test. I will publish the result. Kind regards to all of you. Stevan
 
Hi everybody: I have finally managed to resolve the drama with my Johnson auto bilge pump. As we thought, the small bit of nylon fishing line had wrapped around the impeller shaft and caused the motor to slow and then stop, thereby blowing the in-line fuse connected to the battery bank. I have now washed and scrubbed the bilge and flushed it, then replaced the pump/motor cartridge. Pump now runs beautifully and cuts in when it is supposed to. I will now pay better attention to the state of my bilges - just like I had to in the old days when I was running a machinery space in a Navy vessel! All that good basic knowledge - you never know when it might come in handy! Kind regards and thanks to all who offered advice. Stevan
 
Hi guys: Part 2 of the bilge pump saga. I thought I had the problem fixed, but alas, not so. I am beginning to think the actual pump motor cartridge has finally started to die. I will describe the symptoms below and hopefully someone can provide further advice.

First, while hosing the bilges out after a day at sea, the pump cut in and started pumping, only to stop after about 30 seconds. I then activated the manual switch at the control console and the same thing happened, with the reset breaker switch cutting out).

All all other breaker switches were okay; all other main fuses were okay. I then checked the 5Amp fuse, directly linking the pump to the battery bank, which activates the bilge pump automatically irrespective of the main isolator breaker position under the helm. The 5Amp fuse had failed and I replaced it, put more water in the bilge and waited for the pump to start. It did, only to stop again after about 30 seconds. The fuse had blown again. I left the fuse out and went to the main control console, activated the bilge pump manual switch and after about 30 seconds the reset/breaker switch cut out.

I then removed the pump cartridge from its housing and found more tiny bits of fishing line/thread, etc wrapped around the shaft between the impeller and the motor housing. Once again I thoroughly cleaned the shaft and removed any foreign debris. The impeller turned okay by hand. I replaced the pump/motor cartridge and inserted a new 5Amp fuse.

I tested the automatic function by placing two fingers on the raised circular test pads on the side of the automatic float control switch: all good, pump turned over; likewise, when I depressed the manual switch, it came on. However, after filling the bilge with water, the same symptoms occurred and the pump stopped, with the fuse blowing and console reset switch opening.

My theory: fouling of the pump shaft over time has caused overloading and wear of the motor, causing the fuse to fail and/or the reset breaker switch to open. I thought of an earth/ground within the wiring harness or at the pump end where it is covered by water, but if that was the case, then the pump would not start at all, would it? In my 'un-expert' opinion, it seems to me that the pump cartridge might need replacement. Is that a fair assumption?

NB: The pump cartridge, a Johnson 750 gal/hr, Model 2857, is the original, having been installed around 2009/2010 when the vessel was built. I guess they don't last forever and have to fail at some stage.

I would appreciate feedback. Kind regards, Stevan
 
The pumps aren't that expensive, so replace is the right thing to do. Particularly if you have, and it seems you have, identified the pump as the culprit. I'm installing a second backup pump in Poopsy this spring that will sit just an inch or so higher than the main pump. I've use manual pumps as back up and will always carry one, but I'm happier with the idea of a permanent back up electric pump.
 
.. last summer I had the new Rule 900 GPH pump installed .. it was designed with narrow bilges in mind is multi positional to accommodate hose hook up and easy to take out, with multi options for pump operations .. looks like it had the R21 bilge in mind .. Rob


https://www.westmarine.com/buy/rule-ind ... cordNum=19
 
On the subject of bilge pumps: is there any reason why, when and if I replace my Johnson 750 g/hr bilge pump, I cannot increase the pumping capacity to, say, a 900 or even 1100 g/hr? Are there any perceived issues wrt current drawing rate (currently 3 Amp, with a 5 Amp in-line fuse at the battery post)? Also, what about discharge hose diameter - will the currect bore cope with the increased discharge volume and pressure? I would appreciate any suggestions/advice. Kind regards, Stevan
 
... I'm not up on the technicalities, but my R21 is an older 2005 with the 3ym, and what looked like an original beat up pump that the plastic was self destructing, and we simply mounted the housing, matched a suitable electrical contact and wired it in .. worked great with no signs of anything being overworked or overloaded ..
 
Thanks mate - appreciate the advice. Kind regards, Stevan
 
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