C30CB 2021 water heater electrical

[SKing]

On my boat only half of the breaker panel is fed by the inverter and the hot water heater breaker is on the half that is not fed. Is this a problem with the inverter feed or was it designed to only feed one side?

 

[Bruce Moore]

Bumping post delayed in moderation queue.

 

[dbsea]

I believe this is the design of all the panels on the C-30 CB (2 sides, with one side being the ELCI). However, I believe the inverter will feed the ELCI side as long as you have the ELCI circuit switched on while inverting, although I have not tried this? I don't see this level of detail mentioned in the manual wiring diagrams so hopefully someone else on this forum can validate y/n. The water heater uses an incredible amount of electricity and still takes quite some time to heat the water from cold. The heat generated from the engine heat exchanger to the hot water tank will keep the water hot for many hours (overnight even) after cruising even for a few hours. If i'm on shore power, i will use the hot water heater heating element, but I generally don't when on the hook.

 

[IvanGuzman]

Hello all,

it is design to feed only certain side or breakers from the 110v panel, due to the capacity of batteries (Ah) and output capacity (watts) from the inverter itself. Now if you have an inboard engine, your coolant hoses from the engine (while running) will heat up the water heater and will not require any 110v power or 12v power which is really nice. Just like Dave B. mentions on this thread.

On the ELCI question, the answer is "NO" as the ELCI is not wired to the inverter, the ELCI only comes from the shore power service.

 

[SKing]

Thank you Ivan
Than am I correct in assuming, if I move the load over to the spare breaker on the LH side (ice maker) I could use the hot water heater as long as I monitored the consumption of power. The battery usage calculator indicates if I used it for 1 hour in the morning I would use up 62.5 amp hr. well within my needs for one day anchoring. I would have to keep the breaker off when I am normally off of shore power and only turn it on in the morning to bring the water back up to temp. (If it reaches temp that fast, but it wouldn't be starting with cold water.) Also do you know how long it takes to reach temp using the AC element?

I believe it mentions in as the prop turns that there are tugs out there set up that way? My wife would be very happy with me if that was the case.

 

[SKing]

I believe this is the design of all the panels on the C-30 CB (2 sides, with one side being the ELCI). However, I believe the inverter will feed the ELCI side as long as you have the ELCI circuit switched on while inverting, although I have not tried this? I don't see this level of detail mentioned in the manual wiring diagrams so hopefully someone else on this forum can validate y/n. The water heater uses an incredible amount of electricity and still takes quite some time to heat the water from cold. The heat generated from the engine heat exchanger to the hot water tank will keep the water hot for many hours (overnight even) after cruising even for a few hours. If i'm on shore power, i will use the hot water heater heating element, but I generally don't when on the hook.

Thanks
I tried bringing the water back up to temp in the morning by idling the engine for an hour but that doesn't work. seems like you have to go for a ride and really get it up to temp.

 

[dbsea]

I believe this is the design of all the panels on the C-30 CB (2 sides, with one side being the ELCI). However, I believe the inverter will feed the ELCI side as long as you have the ELCI circuit switched on while inverting, although I have not tried this? I don't see this level of detail mentioned in the manual wiring diagrams so hopefully someone else on this forum can validate y/n. The water heater uses an incredible amount of electricity and still takes quite some time to heat the water from cold. The heat generated from the engine heat exchanger to the hot water tank will keep the water hot for many hours (overnight even) after cruising even for a few hours. If i'm on shore power, i will use the hot water heater heating element, but I generally don't when on the hook.

Thanks
I tried bringing the water back up to temp in the morning by idling the engine for an hour but that doesn't work. seems like you have to go for a ride and really get it up to temp.

Sounds like you’re on to something with moving the load open to an open breaker on the inverter side. One thing to keep in mind, is that it takes about 1600 watt-hours to heat up 6 gallons of water from 45 to 170 degrees. That’s about 133 amp-hours. That is probably 50% of your usable battery capacity assuming you have the 4agm setup I do. (My friend Martin who is also on this forum provided me these numbers in another discussion)


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[Red Raven]

I believe this is the design of all the panels on the C-30 CB (2 sides, with one side being the ELCI). However, I believe the inverter will feed the ELCI side as long as you have the ELCI circuit switched on while inverting, although I have not tried this? I don't see this level of detail mentioned in the manual wiring diagrams so hopefully someone else on this forum can validate y/n. The water heater uses an incredible amount of electricity and still takes quite some time to heat the water from cold. The heat generated from the engine heat exchanger to the hot water tank will keep the water hot for many hours (overnight even) after cruising even for a few hours. If i'm on shore power, i will use the hot water heater heating element, but I generally don't when on the hook.

Thanks
I tried bringing the water back up to temp in the morning by idling the engine for an hour but that doesn't work. seems like you have to go for a ride and really get it up to temp.

Sounds like you’re on to something with moving the load open to an open breaker on the inverter side. One thing to keep in mind, is that it takes about 1600 watt-hours to heat up 6 gallons of water from 45 to 170 degrees. That’s about 133 amp-hours. That is probably 50% of your usable battery capacity assuming you have the 4agm setup I do. (My friend Martin who is also on this forum provided me these numbers in another discussion)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The solution to hot water at anchor (with an inboard) is to run the engine while using the inverter to keep the batteries charged. A few notes of caution. (This all assumes you move the load to the inverter side of the panel as described):

- turn on the hot water breaker only. All other breakers must be off to be sure not to overload the inverter.
- shut off the engine coolant loop that run to the helm heater and hot water tank. There should be two valves in the coolant lines in the engine compartment. Since the engine will be cold (if it wasn’t you would still have hot water!) it will initially actually cool the hot water tank rather than warm it. As you already found out you cannot warm engine sufficiently at idle to help.
- remember to open the helm and hot water heater coolant lines again when finished.

Complicated but possible!

Curt

 

[SKing]

shut off the engine coolant loop that run to the helm heater and hot water tank. There should be two valves in the coolant lines in the engine compartment. Since the engine will be cold (if it wasn’t you would still have hot water!) it will initially actually cool the hot water tank rather than warm it.

Curt I didn't consider this part but it makes perfect sense. So I do have a solution with several steps to make it work but straight forward.

 

[SKing]

1600 watt-hours to heat up 6 gallons of water from 45 to 170 degrees. That’s about 133 amp-hours.

Thanks for the numbers. I will repost if I set it up and also how well it does.

 

[Emerson]

May I ask how long the water stays warm enough for a quick shower? Overnight? Two nights? Thanks in advance.

 

[dbsea]

I have found it to at least be good overnight. Have only spent the one night on the hook this winter, but will definitely test 2+ nights this summer.

 

[NSM]

We found the second morning after shutting off the engines a bit more invigorating than the first.

 

[SJI Sailor]

I'd say 1 night. It can be somewhat warm-ish after 2nd night but that depends on a lot of factors such as ambient temperature. Even more important is how much you use -- as it is used, it is replaced by cold water, diluting the temperature.

 

[knotflying]

If you put the water heater on the inverter fed side I would recommend that you keep the heater off while not at the dock and on shore power. If your inverter has, or is set on, automatic transfer switch and you lose power your heater, if it turns on, will kill your batteries.

 

[SKing]

I finally got a chance to look at the AC wiring. Since there is not a diagram that I have found for the AC, I tugged wires to see where they went. My first observation was I could not determine if the neutral buss bars are the same for both 110vac feeds. Without knowing where the neutral is landed I didn't feel comfortable with changing the hot lead to the ELCI feed.

We spent 2 nights on the hook and we were prepared to manage the hot water. It was warm out so the fresh water tank was warmer than this winter. I used cold water for all dishes etc.

The first morning my wife had warm water for a shower. I used cold. The second day I tried the idea of shutting off the recirculation from the engine. Idled the engine to get 130 plus temp. Then opening the valves to recirculate the water through the water heater. This worked to get a warmish shower for her.

It solves the problem if it''s summer time and your warm and the fresh water tank is already at 50deg plus.