Converting Chocks On 2012 R29 to Cleats

[jpdewitt]

We use our boat on the Gulf Coast which is frequently visited by storms.

The boat has only two cleats on the foredeck. One large cleat behind the windlass and a smaller cleat forward of the windlass. The boat also has two chocks on the foredeck. A set of larger ones and a set of smaller ones. I would like to convert one set of these chocks to cleats to give the foredeck some cleat redundancy when we secure the boat for storms. My question is: Do either of these sets of chocks have backing plates or is the reinforcement embedded in the hull?

J&D
Sunny Tug

 

[Dale777]

If your R29 is similar to my 2014 R31S, there is room to install another large bow cleat just to the port side of the existing large bow cleat. I installed one on the bulge created by the anchor locker.

Using that location allows easy access to the backside of the fiberglass to place a large backing plate to re-enforce that area. The only problem is that the backside of that anchor locker bulge is not flat; it is concave. So, I created a mold of that area with stiff modeling clay. Then I shaped a piece of starboard with a grinder to match the contour of the clay mold. Once it was trial fitted very closely, then I glued the starboard in place with 3M 4200, using 4200 in case I needed to disassemble it due to a final bad fit. Once the backing plate is in place, then drill holes and install the new cleat with the cleat bolts backed by large stainless flat washers.

It looks nice and it is a great aid in securing the boat.

 

[Bobby P.]

Let us know what cleats you pick out. I'm considering doing the same on my 31CB.

 

[jpdewitt]

Dale, thanks for the tip on your modification to add another cleat. I will see if this may work for our R29

I was hoping to get an answer from someone at the factory who may know if the existing cleats are backed or have backing embedded in the fiberglass and convert one set to cleats.

J&D
Sunny Tug
Laying Pensacola, FL

 

[jpdewitt]

Bobby, will do.

J&D
Sunny Tug
PCOLA FL

 

[BB marine]

Since the factory is not responding. I will explain what I have found in all the areas that require backing plates. Cleats, lifting eyes, swim platform, anchor rollers , rails. including the mast. The only metal backing plate that I have seen installed is the ladder on the swim platform. The rest of the areas has what looks to be 1/2" plywood. The C26 and C28 have two cleats installed on the bow and there is a piece of plywood possibly glassed in place with gelcoat painted over the top of it. Thin stainless steel fender washers are used as the backing plate. When the fasteners are tightened the fender washers have a concave appearance. For the most part this old school technique of using plywood as a backing plate in high stress area's for mounting deck fittings works but it still requires the use of a metal backing plate or heavy gauge washers to help reduce the chance of fracturing the fiberglass that encapsulates the wood. If this happened, moisture gets into the wood, it rots and no longer is a packing plate.

If I install anything that would require a backing plate examples, weaver davits, rails, outboard mount, cleats, hand rails, ..... to a fiberglass panel, the hull or deck I use 1/8" stainless steel plate or 1/4" or 3/8" aluminum plate. I prefer the stainless if I can get a nut and washer as a fastener. In areas that is not possible I will drill and tap the aluminum and fasten directly to the plate.

I use a similar method as Dale uses to level the mounting surface. In areas that the mounting surface is not level I use a epoxy filler.
* locate the mounting surface of the cleat. Confirm that there is access under the deck.
*Use the cleat as a template for the backing plate dimensions. I like to have it span the area of the cleats mounting surface.
*Once the plate is cut to size confirm it will fit in the underside for mounting.
*Use the cleat as a template to drill the hole locations in the plate for mounting
*Drill the mounting holes in the deck and do a dry fit to confirm all the holes line up. Cleat on the deck, machine screws though the deck and the plate in place loosely fastened under the deck. Remove everything for the next step.
* Sand the area where the backing plate is to be mounted. Scuff it up to help the epoxy adhere to the mounting surface. Then wipe it a couple times with Acetone,
*Wrap one side of the backing plate with plastic wrap.
* mixup a patch of epoxy( I use west system with filler, mixing it until it is thick enough to work with) (Marine tex) works also enough to fill in the voids and provide a level mounting surface. Spread it on the backing plate at a thickness needed for leveling.
* cleat in place, screws threaded in part way so they can be used as guides for locating the backing plate.
* install backing plate enough that the nuts can be started. Once the nuts are started tighten then evenly until snug to the mounting surface. Let the epoxy harden.
* Once the epoxy has hardened. remove the fasteners, remove the cleat and pry the backing plate loose from the epoxy.
* There is now a level mounting surface for the backing plate that will have forces evenly distributed and is part of the boat.
* apply sealant to the cleat mounting surface, the fasteners, and the backing plate and install.

There are many ways of accomplishing the same thing. This is my technique. Good luck with your project.

 

[Wee Venture]

*Wrap one side of the backing plate with plastic wrap.
* mixup a patch of epoxy( I use west system with filler, mixing it until it is thick enough to work with) (Marine tex) works also enough to fill in the voids and provide a level mounting surface. Spread it on the backing plate at a thickness needed for leveling.
* cleat in place, screws threaded in part way so they can be used as guides for locating the backing plate.
* install backing plate enough that the nuts can be started. Once the nuts are started tighten then evenly until snug to the mounting surface. Let the epoxy harden.

Brian, thank you for for explaining this procedure. I do have one question: if I understand correctly you are applying a coating of epoxy to the top of the (plastic wrap covered) backing plate, pushing the plate up with the bolts going through the holes and then snugging it in place with the nuts. I would have been afraid that the epoxy paste/Marine Tex would squeeze out into the threads of the bolts and nuts and up into the fiberglass holes, making it extremely difficult to disassemble again. Do you have a technique (maybe mold release?) to prevent this or have you found it to be a nonissue?

John

 

[BB marine]

John, I have not used PVA on the threads. Not saying it is not a good idea just saying I have not used it. You must be careful trying to avoid access build-up on the threads in the mounting holes. When drilling the holes I am trying to drill the holes straight for proper alignment, I cut the hole the same size as the fastener ( 1/4 -20 machine screw- 1/4" drill bit. This helps stop the epoxy from migrating up the screw. When I am snugging up the nuts to set the epoxy, forming the leveling surface I don't tighten the nuts to the point that the screw head can not turn. So just snug. If there is concern of the screw getting set up in the leveling pad. Turn the screws one at a time with a screw driver a few times during the epoxies curing. Remember the nuts are just snug so the screws will turn with drag but they will turn.. When removing the nut and screw after the setup is complete the nut and screw may have resistance similar to removing a screw that has locktite on it. I worked with a guy that used air spray as a mold release agent when working on small projects. Spraying the screws with hair spay may work for the DIY project. I have never done that though. I just use my boat wax.

I learned this leveling technique years ago. My cousin ( boat builder) showed me the trick. I was having difficulty aligning an engine in an inboard powered Cruisers. The conclusion was there was an issue with the mounting surface where the strut was mounted to the bottom of the boat. The center line was off. I removed the strut cleaned the mounting surface and then reinstalled using shims between the bottom of the boat and the strut. When I achieved a good center line adjustment for the shaft I measured the thickness of the shims and used that measurement to to form a surface to mount the strut to. I used the previous described procedure and the results was good. A good alignment was now achievable. The customer was happy. No more vibration.

 

[Wee Venture]

Hey thanks Brian! I’m sure that trick is going to come in handy.

John