Cummins QSD150

Tug@myHeart

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
67
Fluid Motion Model
C-248 C
Hull Identification Number
1216676
Non-Fluid Motion Model
20' Design Concepts Welded Alum 135hp Fishing Boat
Vessel Name
Tug At My Heart
Need a bit of help. What should the QSD150 at sea level be running with the stock prop....empty boat 1 person on board and 1/2 tank of fuel. Struggling to get to 3500rpm. 14psi of boost. 15mph 8GPH 75% throttle and 100% load. What have we missed? She just wont go. ANY HELP? Thanks
 
My tug, QSD2-150, new, empty, with no antifouling paint on the bottom ran 21 mph during the sea trial - I never noticed the engine numbers at that time
It won't do that today - bottom paint and fully loaded, 18 -19 is about it
But 15 seems a bit low
And I am a bit puzzled by the 100% load at 75% throttle. I would expect the throttle % to be closer to 100. You usually see that when an engine is over propped.
But first, back to basics.

1. Release the gear shift and advance to full throttle in neutral gear.
What is the maximum RPM attained. Throttle %, load %, fuel flow - Let us know.
You will not hurt the engine, but I am wondering if the rev limiter is limiting the RPM
2. Is your bottom clean - and I mean clean, not just a shrug and assume it is
3. Is your prop clean - same deal
4. How are the trim tabs set at speed - what I do is hold a steady throttle and adjust the tabs up and down in small increments to see which way gains me some speed and then try to find the sweet spot. It will be with the nose higher than you like.
 
You are right where I used to be, couldn't make the correct RPM at WOT. So, as was said, open the throttle in neutral and make sure you can turn 4000 to 4080 RPM, the maximum RPM he QSD is supposed to spin and if you can't make that RPM underway, you're probably just over propped, which is acknowledged here in the TugNuts; these boats were over propped from the factory and that gets worse with the "equipped" weight we load them to!

In my situation, after my neutral performance check, I read the label on the ECM to ensure the ECM had been updated and then had the ECM read by a shop both static and under load. Once I confirmed the engine was operating as it should I had the propeller depitched a pitch at a time going to two depitches total which is the maximum I'm told a propeller can be depitched, (also had it de cupped a bit) and I gained about 300 RPM per each depitch which was also what I was told would happen and my load and throttle percents kept getting closer and closer but still no 4000 at WOT.

Then I had to step back and take a breath because at this point my propeller guy, Acme and Andrew were all telling me what I'd had done to the prop should be producing better results; they all said weight, weight, weight. So I took all the weight off, I fish and dive and the weight that came off was a lot! I went back out and spun right up to 4000. I put some weight back on and finally had to have the propeller reduced in diameter 1.5" to regain the proper RPM at WOT with the boat loaded to my needs. And that's really all you'll be doing, propping the boat to make the correct RPM at WOT at its current weight so you don't lug the engine throughout the entire RPM range.

Looking back, some things that the owner of the shop that read my ECM told me gave some perspective: "Remember, you're not exactly loaded with horsepower to begin with: how many 25s do you see out there with twin 250s pinned to the back?" "Also, these light weight, high output, (we are getting 150 horsepower out of 122 cubic inches) high RPM, (4000 is really spinning a diesel!) marine diesels don't have the "shoulder" (torque from internal spinning mass) that you expect of diesels." "Look, in your mind take the engine out of your boat and pin a 150 horsepower outboard to the back and realize you'ed really have to flog that outboard to get anywhere near the same performance and it wouldn't last anywhere near the hours of service you can depend on that diesel to go."

That last one really resonated with me and as it's said throughout the 'Nuts, "it's the journey not the speed." So now I can make 4000, I operate at 3200 (80%) and I don't care what my MPH or GPH are because at that RPM they are what they are and I can't change them, I open her up every now and again to blow out the carbon, stay up on my maintenance to ensure that diesel dependability and life is good! Hope this has been of some help. rich
 
So, Yes the engine will get up to 4000+rpm in neutral
3500rpm max with 84% throttle and 100% load 14.5psi boost 8.0gph
Empty boat...empty water/waste tanks.....Clean bottom just off the trailer....clean prop...stock prop that used to run up closer to 20mph at sea level.
ECM was replaced by Cummins West before my owning it.

As you said, Understanding how loaded the boat was, but now..... with empty boat she wont go....but now acts like we are over propped and still overweight.

Fuel filter and fuel replaced and tried a separate aux tank just to be sure. No air blockage....no exhaust blockage.

Like someone is hiding in the boat, weighting us down. What could have changed from when I last pulled the boat out till I launch it this year.
 
Tugnnaweigh, which stock prop did you start with? 17 x 15? With the pitch being reduced twice and diameter reduced by 1.5" did you end up with a 15.5 x13?
Mike
 
Tug@myHeart":2xsrcpiz said:
...3500rpm max with 84% throttle and 100% load 14.5psi boost 8.0gph...
Relative to my boat at least, the throttle percent is way low. Maybe check your linkage. However, at 3500 RPM I'm getting more like 16psi "boost" pressure. So there may be an issue with the turbo. The previous owner of my boat replaced the turbo just before I bought the boat. So it is presumably performing reasonably close to as-new condition. Are you getting visual black smoke out the exhaust? At that fuel consumption and low boost you may be running rich. If so that's another sign that your turbo is not performing. Though if the ECM is doing its job(as I understand it) it should cut back injection to compensate for low boost so shouldn't smoke.
 
Yes, Mike, I would say I'm now a 15.5 by 13 and a bit de cupped as well, from .105 to .060 if I remember right. A 17 by 13 is the lowest Acme makes in this three blade according to my prop guy, I would of had to go to a four blade to go any lower and I think they are smaller diameter and typically used on gas ski boats with higher RPMs.

We discussed taking a 17 by 13 and depitching it to 12 or 11 but he thought that would be entering unknown territory, he said making props of this diameter and blade count flatter and flatter would take us somewhere even Acme does not go, let's trim the diameter down in 3/4 inch steps to see if that gets us to where we need to be and that's what we did.

My turbo was also new, my boost is fifteen plus or so, I pulled the screen on the tank fuel intake, adjusted the throttle linkage for a bit more opening, all the little stuff. What finally settled that it was not an engine issue was the shop owner telling me as we went over the readouts of the ECM both static and under load: "Your engines fine, with all the sensors on these diesels, if there was anything even slightly wrong it would set half a dozen of them off!"

It's just a big heavy boat with a little tiny engine and personally, I think the set up is just fine, I love my Tug!
 
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