ELCI Trips during a power outage

[RThorn]

2019 R23 Ranger Tug
Trying to find out why the ELCI trips on the boat whenever shore power is interrupted or in this case during a power outage.

We have tried resetting the ELCI then turning all of the 120 volt breakers on the boat OFF. Then we turn the shore power breaker off and then back on and the ELCI will trip. It will always reset when pressed.

Not a good position for the boat to be in after a power outage.

Thoughts?

 

[Nwdiver]

I have the same thing happen at my house. Some gfci outlets default to tripping on power interruption. My solution was to use a different outlet. I got rid of the last of them several years ago and really don’t remember much except it is written on the packaging when I bought new ones.

I know, not very helpful but if you can find the specs on yours, you might get pointed in the right direction

Ed

 

[Boont Boater]

Thanks Randy (previous owner) for pursuing this. I’ve shut off all circuit breakers and it still trips. I’ve shut off batteries and it trips. Once it is reset, no problems. I didn’t appreciate what a nuisance this could be when there are power outages and we’re not around. I don’t think our 2010 R29 had one of these and I really don’t understand why we need it. Actually, I don’t really understand what the ELCI does.

Jeff

 

[Submariner]

Thanks Randy (previous owner) for pursuing this. I’ve shut off all circuit breakers and it still trips. I’ve shut off batteries and it trips. Once it is reset, no problems. I didn’t appreciate what a nuisance this could be when there are power outages and we’re not around. I don’t think our 2010 R29 had one of these and I really don’t understand why we need it. Actually, I don’t really understand what the ELCI does.

Jeff

Equipment Leakage Circuit Interrupter.

It's meant to safeguard anybody swimming near your boat from electrocution should a fault occur in your electrical system.

http://assets.bluesea.com/files/resources/newsletter/YCDI_ELCI.pdf

 

[Boont Boater]

Wouldn’t the GFCI breaker at the marina do that also? Is this a relatively new safety requirement?

Jeff

 

[Full_O_Fish]

If you have an inverter installed in the vessel, you may want to try disconnecting its 120v wiring and see if the ELCI still trips. Any hot to ground or neutral to ground in the boat can cause the ELCI to trip as it is measuring the difference between the hot and neutral and even a very tiny difference can cause it to trip. Can even be something like a shorted water heater element or some galvanized isolators.

 

[Submariner]

Wouldn’t the GFCI breaker at the marina do that also? Is this a relatively new safety requirement?

Jeff

I know ELCI's are required by ABYC.

I'm no expert, but I found this answer:

"The primary difference between an ELCI and a GFCI is the location and intended use of the device. An ELCI monitors all the power going to a boat (if it’s mounted in a pedestal) or coming from shore (if it’s mounted on the boat) and ensures the same amount of current is returning on neutral as delivered on hot. A GFCI protects an individual outlet or circuit."

Source article
https://panbo.com/gfci-and-elci-breakers-can-be-confounding-but-heed-their-warning/

 

[Jcat2010]

Please take all this in context, since I haven't seen your boat, or a wiring diagram.

Some basics have already been covered, so I'll try not to repeat. ELCIs ensure no leakage of current from the designed path - shore power panel to pedestal to boat, and back. IF the ELCI on the boat is tripping, it is likely that there is some "undiscovered" leak path, or that the ELCI is detecting something and interpreting it as a leak. Inverters, Gensets and battery chargers are often the culprits. When connected to shore power, the only connection between neutral and ground should be at the marina panel. When on genset or inverter, the neutral should be connected to the ground at the boat. These changes have to happen through automatic means (relays) or switches (I have isolating breakers that are interlocked).

If this principal is violated, during an upset event, like a power outage, there may be enough current imbalance to trip your ELCI.

Completely isolating the inverter - both AC and DC might provide additional information. A knowledgeable electrician may be able to troubleshoot. Also check if your marina has an ELCI in the distribution panel - some do, some don't. A circuit breaker in the pedestal is not an ELCI. It is there for over current protection, not leakage.

Better to have nuisance trips and search for a cause, than to cause, or receive a paralyzing dose of electricity via the water (it only takes about 15 thousandths of an AMP).

And yes, ELCIs are a relatively new electrical code item (NEC started pushing in 2011, but each state has their own timetable

 

[Boont Boater]

Thank you Randy and fellow boaters for your input/suggestions. There is no generator but the idea that something is not quite right at the inverter when power is applied makes intuitive sense, since this hasn’t been an issue for Randy or me except when power to boat is turned on and off.

This marina does have protected circuit breakers.

How about I take the ELCI off and swear on my Waggoner’s Bible that I will never use the boat in fresh water. Just kidding! :lol:

 

[Sandro]

i thought i replied to this but maybe not.. I have a 2019 and mine trips as well every time I connect to shore power (I keep it on a mooring). I was told that in that year they had to use a different unit due to a part shortage. I never followed up to replace it because as I mentioned we are on a mooring and when we do dock and hook up to shore power I just hit the reset button and it works fine. You might want to contact the factory.

 

[Brian John]

An ELCI trip at 30 milliamps,
You have a single ELCI on this boat have you considered it may be defective>
For the ELCI there has to be an issue with the wiring on your boat shore power issues will not cause a trip though a problem on your boat and a problem with the incoming shore power may result in tripping.

Assuming you have ruled out a defective ELCI, you need to test for isolation between the neutral and ground on the boat, with shore power disconnected.
You say with all circuit breakers off the tripping occurs. So should that isolate the issue between the ELCI and the AC Panel?

 

[rappja]

I think I also am having a problem with the ECLI circuit breaker on my 2019 R31CB LE, which I have recently acquired.
It was working fine until a few weeks ago, when it seemed to malfunction after an interruption, (e.g. unplugging from shore power) as above. There was no no shore power, but the air condoning side was good.
The rocker switch never went to the off position, but I was able to fix it initially by pushing the test button, which made the rocker go to off. Then I reset the rocker, and it worked fine.
Today it was different. This time when I reset the rocker, the green LED on the ECLI turned on, the one on the shore power panel in the boat came on, but the
circuit breakers for the individual shore power circuits (microwave, a/c outlets, etc. were blinking with no power. The LED on the ELCI circuit breaker was on. The battery charger wasn't charging.
Do you think the problem is a bad ELCI circuit breaker, sine the one for the air conditioning system works? Is it worth it to prove this by switching the wires from the SP breaker to the A/C breaker, thus using the A/C breaker for SP?
Does anyone know the model number of the ACLI breaker in these boats? It is manufactured by Blue Seas Systems. It looks a little like their model

A-Series ELCI Main Circuit Breaker - Double Pole 120V AC 30A,​

But there are no LED lights on this one, as there are in my boat.
I think I read somewhere that the ECLI they used in my vintage boat was problematic.
If the ECLI is not the problem, does anyone have any other ideas before I staret tearing things apart.
Thanks

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