Evil Engineer

K

Ken W

Active member
Joined
Jul 2, 2019
Messages
35
Fluid Motion Model
C-302 C
Hull Identification Number
FMLT3123D717
Vessel Name
Tough Guy
A special place in Hades awaits the sadistic jerk that designed the air filter latches on the Volvo D4-300.
 
I have not yet experienced that particular problem but I will remember your comment when I face that issue! I suspect if there is such a place for design engineers of such type problems, it may be extremely crowded.
 
This strikes a nerve with me.

People may not realize that the design engineers don't have the final say on what goes into production. Across all engineering specialties, there is generally a product management team that controls the purse strings and has the final say on what gets built and put into production. Crazy as it seems, non-technical people who manage everything from spreadsheets, have the final word on what the consumer can buy.

Many, many times, my team and I had excellent design solutions vetoed by the PM. Too expensive. Can't meet our price point, too hard to make. On and on.

We would explain that this was the best solution for the customer. A couple of times PM would fire back, "The customer is not represented here." Very frustrating for us.

Doesn't mean bad engineering doesn't happen. Of course it does.

But more often than not the best designs are vetoed on cost alone with no thought to long term customer satisfaction.

Rant concluded.

-martin
 
I totally agree with Martin. Cheers Matey!
 
I would like to think that I (we) as customers control the purse strings and therefore ultimately will control what will be produced if the company wants to stay in business! We all buy items that do not meet our expectations and get frustrated with the product, the best action is a honest review of the product and a warning to others of the quality issues.
Bob's quote for the day " No tree is so big that a little dog can't raise his leg and Pee on it!"
 
You make a fair point, Martin. I've been in the same spot and it could just as well been an evil bean-counter. I'd just mangled the latches and barked up knuckles into the bargain when I wrote that.
 
bob daily":3tavi6yf said:
I would like to think that I (we) as customers control the purse strings and therefore ultimately will control what will be produced if the company wants to stay in business! We all buy items that do not meet our expectations and get frustrated with the product, the best action is a honest review of the product and a warning to others of the quality issues.
Bob's quote for the day " No tree is so big that a little dog can't raise his leg and Pee on it!"
Click to expand...

I'd love to agree with you, but experience says lots of us will buy it anyway. I had one new model boat that had just come out and I couldn't reach one of the seacock valves. I needed longer arms. I found this out after I bought the boat of course. I just don't know how it's possible to check everything before purchase. Some things like seacock valve access would seem to be a 'no brainer', but it wasn't until I went to turn on the raw water that I found I couldn't easily reach the valve handle once it was closed.

I put my complaints on their forum, but they're still selling plenty of that model boat and the seacock valve is still located poorly for access. Guess a lot of customers don't check the forums or reviews before purchasing.
 
Martin:
I apologize for not being more clear in my comment and limiting the comment to the "engineers". I almost expanded my comments to address the fact that there were more players involved especially those concerned with counting the costs at assembly and sometimes the design appearance folks. You are right, I should have (or written nothing). What all manufacturers should probably spend more time on is: What is the end product and the cost of maintenance given labor to do regular required maintenance that we all know will be required? I know if it was available, I would read manufacturers' advertising about how they incorporated design specifics to improve performance, longevity, ease of maintenance and cost of routine replacement parts. (The Ranger Tug website seems to be similar to and just as limited in this area as every other manufacturer. Color seems to be more important than durability, which is a little difficult to understand when you are bouncing off 5 footers 30 miles offshore.) ( I give Fluid Motion high marks for at least having replacement part order forms available and easy to use and for which they promptly fulfill.) Durability and long term seaworthiness is more important to me than "flash" appearance at boat shows (or car shows etc.). I suspect given the cost of these boats, most of us would love more attention spent to these areas and if the end cost of the product was impacted, we could deal with it. Based on the comments I read on this forum and others, the customers are not the same as those buying a budget boat at less than $30,000 for an occasional family outing on sheltered waters.
Todd
 
Old wisdom on boats: if something can be readily seen and serviced, its more likely it will be.
 
Dealing with engineers every day I can say that more often than not their initial designs are brilliant. The problem comes when a price tag gets applied to the design and then it goes back to be “value engineered” (see there is even a name for it). This is when things get redesigned to second third or fourth least objectionable compromise. My point being that yes we the consumer drive these decisions with our purchasing demand for always lower prices. If we just let the engineering folks do their job we would pay a little more but be so much better off.
 
Ken, I'm with you, whether it be an engineer or a money driven shortcut, the latches on the air cleaner are an abomination.

I've reverted to duct tape...

Gary
 
No worries Todd. It was a good opportunity for me to expound on a topic that's important to me. Was a good discussion for the community we have here too.

I think we are fortunate in that Fluid Motion is a privately held company. That way they can focus on customers and not worry about 'share holder' value. That's a whole nightmare.

-martin
 
Do we really need air filters on our engines?? I can't think of a cleaner environment than being out on the water. The filter is intended to keep abrasive grit out of the engine. I had a yanmar engine on a sailboat with a filter that deteriorated early on. I removed it and ran the engine for 30 more seasons while using no oil at all during each season. As far as I know it's still going strong. I suggest one more go-round with the latches, throw the filter away and say AMEN. I suppose another alternative that avoids the latches entirely is to not worry about changing the filter - ever.

Larry
 
Before retiring I ran a company that built, among many other things, equipment for power stations. Brilliant engineers and products that boasted 99.4% availability, including scheduled maintenance. Decades between overhauls. A new unit we introduced, engineered in Germany, was installed in Florida. A $200 seal failed shortly after start up. Such things happen and are obviously a warranty item. Because of design, field techs had to disassemble a large piece of the unit, reassemble and realign. That cost us more than $15,000 for equipment rentals, airfreight of components and so forth. After that, one of our field service techs became a member of the design team on every new unit.

Concerning elimination of the air filter, that can be risky and depends on many factors. A sailboat or an R21, maybe reasonable given the layout but ask an owner of a diesel R25 or R27 who has a dog or cat on board what their air filter looks like after 100 hours.
 
If the filter needs changing then it is getting dirty. Eliminating it would be a mistake because that would mean that the dirt the the filter is catching is going into the intake instead. Curse and swear, call whomever designed it a F#$@&@$ F$@&#$ but don’t throw it away as suggested above. It does serve a purpose.
 
B95054":1n4ja878 said:
If the filter needs changing then it is getting dirty. Eliminating it would be a mistake because that would mean that the dirt the the filter is catching is going into the intake instead. Curse and swear, call whomever designed it a F#$@&@$ F$@&#$ but don’t throw it away as suggested above. It does serve a purpose.
Click to expand...


Amen

Diesels only need a few things to run well and reliably.
1) Enough air flow. See Brian's many posts, all good. Flow includes literally enough air, and a filter clean enough to pull it through.
2) Clean air, and of a low enough temperature.
3) Enough fuel flow
4) Clean fuel
5) Water flow for engine cooling. And coolant.

Degrade any of those at your peril. And expense.

The rest is managing wear and corrosion.
 
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