Handling C30 (inboard) in bad conditions?

D

dbsea

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2021
Messages
1,063
Fluid Motion Model
R-23 (Outboard)
Vessel Name
HALCYON
MMSI Number
368365270
I found myself in a very uncomfortable / harrowing situation this past Saturday. We were making our way down from the San Juans, and we were on the last leg of our trip (Anacortes to Portage Bay, via the Swinomish channel, Saratoga passage, Shilshole, locks, etc.). I had been diligently watching the incoming cold front and wind forecasts, hence taking the inside and protected route as far as we could, but the forecast never showed the conditions we were about to encounter. We went slow all the way down for the most part, due to all the logs from the king tides and my apprehension from hitting a log back in November (thankfully no damage). It was a calm, uneventful cruise all the way to the south end of Whidbey Island with the wind blowing from the north behind us, pushing us along at a comfortable 9.5kn. As we entered the main part of Puget sound between Mukilteo and Edmonds, the conditions really went to ****. Out of seemingly nowhere we had 5ft following seas and 30kn gusts out of the northwest. While an experienced boater, I generally choose to avoid those kinds of conditions especially as I'm still just a bit over a year into owning a single screw inboard, coming from a twin screw outdrive boat. Even with the trim tabs fully retracted and desperately trying to surf down the waves, I found the boat lacked enough power to keep the bow up and stay on the surf and had a couple of really close calls where I almost took a 5-foot wave across the beam or narrowly avoided burying the bow in a wave because either I didn't know how to properly control it or the boat is just not cut out for that. Just south of Edmonds the waves were pushing us too close to shore, so I had to tack back out to more open water to make it around the two points to get to Shilshole, which was also somewhat harrowing. All said, it was probably the scariest 45-60 minutes i've had on the water in my own boat, and I arrived at the locks drenched in sweat, but grateful I didn't have to practice my mayday or figure out how I was going to save my spouse and my 3 dogs in those conditions. I would be lying if I said the thought of ramming the boat into the beach at Edmonds did not cross my mind.

Other than avoiding boating in those kinds of conditions, what else could I have done here to keep better control of the boat? Are they just not meant for those kinds of conditions? :?
 
Dave,
That sounds awful! I can’t offer any advice on how you could have handled the boat in those conditions. Fortunately, I’ve never experienced them.
Let me mention something that occurred to me reading about your experience that relates to my cross country flying days. Over the years I lost a number of friends to “get home itis”. Pilots who overflew perfectly good airports into deteriorating weather conditions because they were laser focused on getting back to their home base. I learned that when facing bad weather it’s best to land at the nearest airport.
That lesson has stuck with me while boating. I’m always thinking about bailing out to the nearest marina or anchorage if the wind and waves get beyond my comfort level. Every season we have a couple of days when we stop short of our intended destination because the actual conditions got worse than forecast.
On Saturday I probably would have pulled in at Everett or Edmonds or Kitsap (whichever was easiest to get to) and taken an Uber to get home.
Just my thoughts.
 
scross":1h555fpy said:
Dave,
That sounds awful! I can’t offer any advice on how you could have handled the boat in those conditions. Fortunately, I’ve never experienced them.
Let me mention something that occurred to me reading about your experience that relates to my cross country flying days. Over the years I lost a number of friends to “get home itis”. Pilots who overflew perfectly good airports into deteriorating weather conditions because they were laser focused on getting back to their home base. I learned that when facing bad weather it’s best to land at the nearest airport.
That lesson has stuck with me while boating. I’m always thinking about bailing out to the nearest marina or anchorage if the wind and waves get beyond my comfort level. Every season we have a couple of days when we stop short of our intended destination because the actual conditions got worse than forecast.
On Saturday I probably would have pulled in at Everett or Edmonds or Kitsap (whichever was easiest to get to) and taken an Uber to get home.
Just my thoughts.
Click to expand...

get home itis is a great way to call it - I certainly felt like I had passed a no return point and had blinders on but could have easily turned back to everett and saved myself a lot of stress. 🙂
 
Sounds terrifying. Following seas are no joke. I do not know the area well enough to opine on alternative ports, but I would simply add that putting the bow into those waves likely would have been a choice I would have CONSIDERED. I put "considered" in all caps to indicate that there's no way I am going to second guess anything you did, because I was not there. Ultimately, if you can't "surf" 'em, ya just gotta fight 'em (bow in)...but, again, I wasn't there and turning around in those conditions might have been the worst decision ever. Regardless, take heart: you now know your boat better than you did before going through this...that which doesn't kill us, makes us stronger (and smarter!) Just very glad you're safe!!!
 
That stretch of water from Des Moines all the way North to Admiralty inlet... a southerly or north wind will just tear it up. There's a lot of fetch there.

In October 2020 I spent 2 solid hours on a Friday in 5 foot seas heading south into the waves just to go 10 miles. Sunday we were on our way back in 4 foot seas, heading north, with a following sea. That was an hour and half trip being tossed around.

The trip home in 4 foot following seas was better than the trip there in 5 footers heading into the waves. Not because the 1 foot made that big of a difference. What I found helped a lot was looking at the wind, where's it coming from? What protection is available?

I found that by going all the way across the channel (West side), there were several points I could hide behind, hugging the shoreline. Apple Cove point by Kingston, for example... The North/South waterway (Puget Sound) is just under 3 miles wide. It's possible/probable to have 4-5 footers in the middle, and be flat or near flat closer to the shoreline that offers the greatest protection from the wind.

By plotting my course to stay behind a point, Restoration Point, Yeomalt Point, Skiff Point, Dolphin Point... as examples... I was able to find better water, and it became obvious when I would say to LaZina "Alright, hang on as we come around the point it's gonna get bumpy..." when I lost the protection of land. And, of course, at some point I needed to cross from West to East on my way home. Fortunately for me, I'd traveled far enough North that the wind had calmed down so crossing the channel was decent water.

With 4 foot following seas I was doing a lot of throttle up, throttle back to keep the bow up and to not bury it into the trough of a wave. I saw some crazy good numbers on fuel efficiency as the ocean was moving us forwards in a big way (free mpg). You might even say I was channel surfing. Ha! 🙂

I also don't assume that turning around will yield better results. Seek shelter from the wind in whatever direction that may be.

That body of water at Possession Bar, 6 miles across, a 3 way intersection. Yuck on a bad day. Not much you can do there other than tough it out. You should also look at the bright side. You made it home safe.

I'm a recreational boater. Big waves aren't fun. They just aren't. I'd rather spend my time at the dock drinking while waiting out the weather.

As far as the weather forecast goes... I used to go Halibut fishing with Captain Bob out of Homer, Alaska. We saw 10' seas on his boat. With regards to the weather he'd say "You gotta go to know..."
 
@Dave,

Glad you made it home safely. I'm a new boater (maybe 2 years) so I also can't contribute any advice, but I welcome stories like your for me to learn from.

Bad weather and "get home itis" is probably what keeps me docked more often than I want. I have a younger kid, so we time our vacations and weekends very tightly to get back before a school day. But waiting out the weather and missing a day is probably better than an accident on the water.
 
This is a discussion worth having for sure. I think what caused you most of the problem was trying to surf the face of the wave. This is very dangerous and can lead to broaching. The best place to be is riding the backside of wave in front of you.
Where I boat this is not possible 100% of the time because the waters get really confused with very short wave period but if you stay aware and anticipate ahead of time your throttle and steering corrections you can make conditions like these less stressful, at least for the crew. You will still be sweating when you done. Thanks for posting. We can all learn from experiences like this.

Britt
 
I don't have much to add to others on the handling -- agree with surfing the back side, and also aggressively trying to keep 45 degrees to waves as best one can. Moving farther from shore, closer to shore, and/or looking for wind shadows can help a bit.

I will highlight that the exact location -- where Admiralty Inlet hits Puget Sound -- once surprised us very similarly. Things were reasonably calm and predictable heading South but when we rounded Whidbey it became extremely turbulent and erratic. (Seems to have been combination of more wind than expected, fetch, and wind facing ebb tide.) So now we are very cautious there just as we are where Admiralty meets the Strait.
 
I've run into this situation a few times in an r29 cb. From my experience, when there are large trailing seas powering up definitely helps - to both stabilize the boat and plant the stern down as well as to keep up with the waves. 12/13+ knots. At 7 knots/displacement speeds it was scary. The other thing (and I picked this up from years of sailing in large following seas) is to use the auto pilot on heading hold. This eliminates tendency of the Skipper to try to fight the pitch and roll with the wheel and over compensating. The gps doesn't care about the pitch and roll of the boat or the wave height or movement ..it just keeps the antenna on a straight course line with remarkably small but very constant and quick adjustments to the rudder despite all the rock and roll. And with the boat powered up the rudder keeps its bite

Going into the big waves, speed is obviously slow and steady. The rangers have a sharp bow entry so while a VERY wet ride she does cut through pretty big waves without pounding.

That all said I try not to go out of highly protected areas when over 15-20knts and also constantly monitor the wind direction (present and future using the apps we all love) to achieve this. Where I am located, wind direction is way more impactful than wind speed.
 
SJI Sailor":34mnsaem said:
I don't have much to add to others on the handling -- agree with surfing the back side, and also aggressively trying to keep 45 degrees to waves as best one can. Moving farther from shore, closer to shore, and/or looking for wind shadows can help a bit.

I will highlight that the exact location -- where Admiralty Inlet hits Puget Sound -- once surprised us very similarly. Things were reasonably calm and predictable heading South but when we rounded Whidbey it became extremely turbulent and erratic. (Seems to have been combination of more wind than expected, fetch, and wind facing ebb tide.) So now we are very cautious there just as we are where Admiralty meets the Strait.
Click to expand...

I believe the opposing currents (ebb) were also at play in my situation much like you described - the wave direction was very erratic although mostly following from the NW wind gusting in at 30kn. It was very washing machine like and scary. Will do my best to avoid that stuff moving forward.
 
Sandro":2xvnibz8 said:
I've run into this situation a few times in an r29 cb. From my experience, when there are large trailing seas powering up definitely helps - to both stabilize the boat and plant the stern down as well as to keep up with the waves. 12/13+ knots. At 7 knots/displacement speeds it was scary. The other thing (and I picked this up from years of sailing in large following seas) is to use the auto pilot on heading hold. This eliminates tendency of the Skipper to try to fight the pitch and roll with the wheel and over compensating. The gps doesn't care about the pitch and roll of the boat or the wave height or movement ..it just keeps the antenna on a straight course line with remarkably small but very constant and quick adjustments to the rudder despite all the rock and roll. And with the boat powered up the rudder keeps its bite

Going into the big waves, speed is obviously slow and steady. The rangers have a sharp bow entry so while a VERY wet ride she does cut through pretty big waves without pounding.

That all said I try not to go out of highly protected areas when over 15-20knts and also constantly monitor the wind direction (present and future using the apps we all love) to achieve this. Where I am located, wind direction is way more impactful than wind speed.
Click to expand...

I felt like I needed to turn the AP off because it was making fanatical groaning noises and according to the AP computer, going extremely off heading 10 degrees one way or another depending on how I was being tossed around...
 
Interesting. Might be something wrong with your AP. Maybe check for leaks at the pump and check and fill the fluid at the wheel. AP should definitely not do that.
 
I wouldn't be using autopilot in those conditions. Hand steering and throttle are a must. Yes, and as a former pilot Gethereittis is an important symptom to overcome. You learned two things, how much you can handle and how much the boat can handle. With that experience you now have a gauge for the future. I always have "personal limits" that I follow and never exceed them. When I look at forecasts for winds and seas I take them with a grain of salt and allow for error. Determining wind an sea direction makes a difference as well, especially if seas will be abeam. And then as they say, " Best laid plans of mice and men often go astray. That is when a ditch plan should have been considered. And quite frankly, if you are thinking of a ditch plan before you go, you may already have your no go decision. I am glad you arrived safely and now you have an experience that will stick with you forever. Those of us that have been cruising long enough have one of those. Lessons learned from experience are those most embedded in our memory.
 
When I start to unconsciously hum the theme from Gilligan’s Island I usually turn around and head back to port. Glad you made it home safely. There have been times at sea Tuna fishing when I have asked myself “is this really fun.”

Swims with Tuna
 
nzfisher":2ejxarlh said:
When I start to unconsciously hum the theme from Gilligan’s Island I usually turn around and head back to port. Glad you made it home safely. There have been times at sea Tuna fishing when I have asked myself “is this really fun.”

Swims with Tuna
Click to expand...

I hope you mean subconsciously, not unconsciously, because if you are unconscious, we might have an entirely different set of problems... :-D
 
UN-CON-SCIOUS-LY. Without realizing or being aware of one's actions
The story of my life!
 
Bad conditions indeed, but I’m impressed he stole an Ocean Alexander aft cabin twin diesel and got it out to the bar in the first place, and managed to make a mayday call on the vhf!
 
dbsea":1d6zfy3r said:
I found myself in a very uncomfortable / harrowing situation this past Saturday. We were making our way down from the San Juans, and we were on the last leg of our trip (Anacortes to Portage Bay, via the Swinomish channel, Saratoga passage, Shilshole, locks, etc.). I had been diligently watching the incoming cold front and wind forecasts, hence taking the inside and protected route as far as we could, but the forecast never showed the conditions we were about to encounter. We went slow all the way down for the most part, due to all the logs from the king tides and my apprehension from hitting a log back in November (thankfully no damage). It was a calm, uneventful cruise all the way to the south end of Whidbey Island with the wind blowing from the north behind us, pushing us along at a comfortable 9.5kn. As we entered the main part of Puget sound between Mukilteo and Edmonds, the conditions really went to ****. Out of seemingly nowhere we had 5ft following seas and 30kn gusts out of the northwest. While an experienced boater, I generally choose to avoid those kinds of conditions especially as I'm still just a bit over a year into owning a single screw inboard, coming from a twin screw outdrive boat. Even with the trim tabs fully retracted and desperately trying to surf down the waves, I found the boat lacked enough power to keep the bow up and stay on the surf and had a couple of really close calls where I almost took a 5-foot wave across the beam or narrowly avoided burying the bow in a wave because either I didn't know how to properly control it or the boat is just not cut out for that. Just south of Edmonds the waves were pushing us too close to shore, so I had to tack back out to more open water to make it around the two points to get to Shilshole, which was also somewhat harrowing. All said, it was probably the scariest 45-60 minutes i've had on the water in my own boat, and I arrived at the locks drenched in sweat, but grateful I didn't have to practice my mayday or figure out how I was going to save my spouse and my 3 dogs in those conditions. I would be lying if I said the thought of ramming the boat into the beach at Edmonds did not cross my mind.

Other than avoiding boating in those kinds of conditions, what else could I have done here to keep better control of the boat? Are they just not meant for those kinds of conditions? :?
Click to expand...

Do you recall what were the water temperatures? Just a thought in an emergency and getting tossed into the drink. Hypothermia and all. I recall my days as a Naval Aviator and the special flight suits we wore over geographical cold water seas.
 
Puget Sound in January is around a balmy 45 degrees
 
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