Holing Tank Odor or leak

[TugNuts@TaylorCreek]

I have a 2011 R27....I first used the holding tank about a year ago. There is a STRONG waste odor coming from under the galley sink. When the weather is warm the odor is stronger. we could not find where it was coming from so I installed a charcoal filter unit in the vent tube in the stern, but that did nothing and when I raised the engine hacth the odor was not coming from that area. I went back in the cabin and opened the storage cabinet under the sink and was about knocked over with the foul ordor of sewage.

Has anyone experienced this and if so has it be resolved.....there is no odor coming from my tolit in the bathroom (head).

The boat is totally unusable if you try to use the holding tank. My wife and I cannot even stay in the cabin more than a few minutes before we are forced to go outside. Please let me know if anyone else has this problem. 🙁

 

[Stella Maris]

A couple of question here.

First, does the odor go away after pumping and rinsing the tank?
If so, how long afterwards does it take for the odor to go away?
I assume you have seen no sewage in the bilge.

All of this would lead me to believe your vent is not venting overboard as it should but instead is venting into your bilge. You may have already done so but, I would trace the vent hose back to where it is connected (or not) to the tank.

Good luck and hopefully it will be something as simple as a venting issue.

 

[baz]

Before you do any thing call Ranger Tugs for their advice on this. It does sound like the plumbing connections/routing/venting is amiss. They can give you good directions, save you time and possibly avoid you making a mess of things.

I will admit, that I can smell that type of odor occasionally but briefly but only if my head is over the transom area where the holding tank vent is located. I assume this is normal though. Under the sink is definitely not right.

 

[JamesTXSD]

I don't know how the head/holding tank plumbing is routed in the 27, but do you have a macerator pump under the galley? If that is the case, it may be the pump itself is leaking or the hoses. Also, it is important to run fresh water into the holding tank after using the macerator pump, then run the pump again to flush the pump and hoses.

You may have to plug your nose and wipe down the area with bleach to determine the source of the smell.

 

[walldog]

I don't know how the head/holding tank plumbing is routed in the 27, but do you have a macerator pump under the galley? If that is the case, it may be the pump itself is leaking or the hoses. Also, it is important to run fresh water into the holding tank after using the macerator pump, then run the pump again to flush the pump and hoses.

You may have to plug your nose and wipe down the area with bleach to determine the source of the smell.

The macerator pump on the 27 is located at the base of the holding tank located in the rear of the engine compartment. The toilet has a small spinning "macerator" type pump located in the base of the toilet. From the base of the toilet there is a 1.5 inch pipe that runs to the holding tank. Under normal conditions there should be no open connections for you to get an odor, unless it is from the vent as Jim describes above. The drains from the sinks in the head and the kitchen go directly overboard without a p trap...which is not necessary. The shower drains to a sump located under the cabinet in the head. It pumps directly overboard. These direct overboard throughhulls are located on the starboard side just above waterline and below the head and kitchen windows. The vent for the holding tank is located on the gunnel at the stern near the pumpout access port. The holding tank macerator discharges overboard on the port side directly from the bottom of the holding tank.

I would run water in the shower making sure it pumps and pumps overboard. This sump needs to be cleaned from time to time by removing the cover and cleaning out the gunk (nautical term) that accumulates there. If you do not have regular use, it could dry out and may cause an odor, small possibility. Run water in the sinks and make sure they are draining overboard freely. Make sure that after pumping your holding tank you flush a couple or three gallons of water into the holding tank to keep the solids liquid. Make sure that when the toilet is used that you flush well to push any solids on down and into the tank. Too little water will leave them in the discharge line. Since you only used the holding tank once, some solids may have remained at the Joker valve at the base of the toilet. They may have dried here and be keeping this rubber one-way valve open a bit. Hopefully if this is the case, it may be cleared by lots of flushing.

We live aboard our 2011 R27 for several months at a time. Do not be stingy with water. My opinion is that plenty of water keeps things clear and clean. We have very little odor problems on our boat even though we have above average use of our head and shower. I almost never use marina showers or other shore facilities. Jake however is another matter....he refuses to go aboard.

 

[TugNuts@TaylorCreek]

Thanks so much to everyone replyhing....just talking about it keeps me form getting frustrated!!!

To respond to the questions:

1. I have used the holding tank several times, but the first time was a year ago
2. I always use plenty of water whenever the head is used I always go in and fill the toilet and empty 2 or 3 times.
All my drains work fine and drain properly overboard on the starboard side.
3. When I have the tank pumped out I immediately fill the holding tank with fresh water to about 30% full and then pump it out again
4. As soon as I pump out and flush with clean water and pump out again...the odor disipates within a few minutes....this leads me to believe it is a venting problem....but I have checked the vent line from the tank to the stern vent and even placed a charcoal in-line filter and NOTHING changed...

Since this has been a problem since I took delivery it leads me to believe there was something done (or not done) at the factory or the dealership that was not correct. I shiver at the thought of tearing up cabinets to trace any lines....

I have wondered if there was a T connection somewhere that shares a vent line someother place besides the holding tank vent line??????

I guess I must contact Andrew and his staff to get some ideas as I am totally at a loss here and I am scared to start tearing up the cabinets to get to the lines running under the galley sink!!!

 

[Stella Maris]

Before you do any thing call Ranger Tugs for their advice on this. It does sound like the plumbing connections/routing/venting is amiss. They can give you good directions, save you time and possibly avoid you making a mess of things.

As boat owners, we must eventually take responsibility for our boats. We are not always going to have the factory to call and ask "how does the plumbing run on my toilet"? This should be your last resort. Following a vent line from the top of the tank to the transom is not something you cannot handle yourself.

Ranger does a great job at supporting their product but at some time, that one year warranty runs out. They are great at offering advice but, as they sell more boats, the resources start to get stretched pretty thin. Then it becomes your responsibility to make repairs or pay someone else.

 

[TugNuts@TaylorCreek]

Before you do any thing call Ranger Tugs for their advice on this. It does sound like the plumbing connections/routing/venting is amiss. They can give you good directions, save you time and possibly avoid you making a mess of things.

As boat owners, we must eventually take responsibility for our boats. We are not always going to have the factory to call and ask "how does the plumbing run on my toilet"? This should be your last resort. Following a vent line from the top of the tank to the transom is not something you cannot handle yourself.

Ranger does a great job at supporting their product but at some time, that one year warranty runs out. They are great at offering advice but, as they sell more boats, the resources start to get stretched pretty thin. Then it becomes your responsibility to make repairs or pay someone else.

Reply from Tug Nuts @Taylor Creek:
I totally agree Destiny....I have already paid Yanmar several hundred dollars to replace a cable that was installed incorrectly and fixed several things that were not correct when the boat was delivered to me by a Broker who really had no dealership ....even though it was still within the 1 year warrenty that was never written...the holding tank is just another problem that I now must get fixed so I can enjoy by boat. At some point as you say, I must take responsibility for the decision I made to purchase the vessel.....I did....three months after it was delivered with leaks.
It is only because the factory has been so helpful that I still try to be positive. That is why I am reaching out to other owners to address the Holding Tank problem by process of elimination. I am totally capable of repairing most all the the systems on the boat, having had a 42' Bristol Trawler and several other vessels, but I get a little frustrated when something is new and on the first use the item misfunctions. I am simply trying to see if others have had this problem and any suggestions that I have not thought of in identifiying the cause.

Thanks for your comments.

 

[walldog]

I have wondered if there was a T connection somewhere that shares a vent line someother place besides the holding tank vent line??????

I guess I must contact Andrew and his staff to get some ideas as I am totally at a loss here and I am scared to start tearing up the cabinets to get to the lines running under the galley sink!!!

There is not or at least should not be a tee in the line from the toilet to the holding tank. It should be a single piece of tubing from the joker valve to the tank.

The bottom of the cabinet under the sink in the head has a bottom that lifts out. It even has a finger hole to assist you lifting it out. This will give you access to the shower sump. Through this access you will be able to see lots of pipes, tubing and wires. The largest white tubing is the drain for the toilet, it may be clamped above or beside the shower sump.

I do not see how sewage could be under the galley sink cabinet. If there is a sewage leak from the toilet and or the joker valve, you should be able to see evidence of this when you remove the bottom of the cabinet in the head.

 

[baz]

Since this issue you have is presumable/possibly an health issue that could affect any one of us I would at least let Ranger Tugs know of it. It would not surprise me if you're personally contacted by Ranger about this odor. I for one would very much like to hear back when you've discovered what's causing the odor and what remedy you came up with. Thanks... 🙁

As an aside, I replaced my manual head on my R25 with an electric operated unit and before doing so I had discussions with Ranger about the plumbing to ensure I did not mess things up. They were very helpful even beyond my 1 year warranty.

 

[Osprey]

The carbon filter absorbs odor from the air which normally vents from the waste tank vent. I get the impression that on your boat the odor is from a leak between the toilet and the tank, hence this filter would not help for your boat’s malfunction. It would not take make much of an air or fluid leak under the toilet to cause the odor you are experiencing. I would check for a fluid leak by putting a food dye into the toilet, flushing, then check for color at the hose to toilet connection. Use the under sink access panel for this check. A piece of paper towel place under the connection prior to flushing would catch the color. Counting against a fluid leak is that a fluid leak would probably cause a longer term odor then exists on your boat.
Other posters have wondered if the tank is able to vent out of the vent line. If the vent line were plugged you would possible get tank air backflow past the joker valve into the toilet. The backflow would only occur while the joker value is open which could explain that the odor only occurs right after flushing the toilet. Check for vent blockage by having one person monitor the vent outlet while another flushes the toilet. I leave it to you as to who and how this monitoring is a done.

 

[Todd]

I had this same problem with my R29. The holding tank indicator is not working, Still trying to fix this. I will get a strong odor in the main cabin if the tank gets overfilled. Little to no smell in the head. Have not yet found how this is possible but it indicates the smell does not enter the boat through the toilet. A pump out immediately solves the problem. I have inspected every connection on both fluid and vent lines and can not find the source of the odor. My solution is pump before the tank overfills. As soon as I get back to the boat this spring I will make it a top priority to get the level indicators to work.

 

[Longbranch Louie]

Ok Im sure you've thought of this but could it be something other than sewage? I had a mouse/rat die under my cabinets in a trailer years ago and it presented a horrible odor that increased as it got warmer inside. Never figured out how the critter got in but the little guy packed a punch in his after life. I thought it was a sewage problem at first as the odors vented at points where pipes passed thru floors and walls.

 

[baz]

If I were designing the plumbing for the head I'd make the outlet pipe with just two connections; one at the head outlet and the other at the waste tank inlet. Thus if a leak occurred it would have to be in one of these two spots OR a hole somewhere in the pipe itself. If you rule out the pipe hole and assuming there are but two joint connections you are left with three possibilities...

1) Leak is at the head outlet connection
2) Leak is at the waste tank inlet connection
3) Leak is at both the head outlet and waste tank inlet

There's one other possibility in the event the waste tank fills up. The vent line connection on the waste tank could be leaking and becomes a problem if waste tank overfilled.

I've looked at the level of the waste tank's top and compared that to the level of where the head's outlet pipe is and for all practical purposes they are at the same level and if anything the top of the waste tank is lower than the head's outlet pipe. This then means if the waste tank overfills it will not backup in the line running to the head unless the vent pipe begins to fill up also.

If you have a macerator then also check the fittings on that as it's connection is to the lower section of the waste tank and another potential leak spot. Also check to make sure the macerator valve is closed per USCG ruling in USA waters.

The above assumption is another reason to discuss this with the Ranger folk, as they have full knowledge of the head waste plumbing design.

BTW... I'm holding my breath waiting to know what you find and how you resolve it... :roll:

[Edit] One more thought... do you or have you had a 4-legged friend onboard that may have hidden some evil smelling onion dump ?

 

[ragman]

My wife and I have decided that a 27' footer is the perfect boat for our needs. We found a one year model that warranted an 8 hour drive to inspect her. When we arrived, the broker casually informed us that there was a "little odor" due to the WC being drained of water when the holding tank was emptied.

That "little odor" was overpowering and permeated the boat. The broker continued to claim the odor was coming up from the holding tank through the WC. But, the odor from within the bilge was even stronger than in the head. The odor was what one experiences on a boat which septic hoses have been permeated and long need of replacement.

We suspect that the holding tank was left with sewage in it for too long and has been permanently infused with odor.

Any thoughts?

 

[baz]

My wife and I have decided that a 27' footer is the perfect boat for our needs. We found a one year model that warranted an 8 hour drive to inspect her. When we arrived, the broker casually informed us that there was a "little odor" due to the WC being drained of water when the holding tank was emptied.

That "little odor" was overpowering and permeated the boat. The broker continued to claim the odor was coming up from the holding tank through the WC. But, the odor from within the bilge was even stronger than in the head. The odor was what one experiences on a boat which septic hoses have been permeated and long need of replacement.

We suspect that the holding tank was left with sewage in it for too long and has been permanently infused with odor.

Any thoughts?

If the boat is otherwise exactly what you want, then try to negotiate with dealer to have the holding tank replaced. That kind of odor will likely put off any potential buyer and the dealership would be wise to have it resolved.

 

[ragman]

If the boat is otherwise exactly what you want, then try to negotiate with dealer to have the holding tank replaced. That kind of odor will likely put off any potential buyer and the dealership would be wise to have it resolved.

Pardon my ignorance, but aren't the tanks installed before the superstructure (and sole) is installed. And, therefore, the tanks are pretty much inaccessible?

I plan to call Ranger Tugs tomorrow with that question.

Thanks

 

[knotflying]

The tank does have access from the engine compartment, but may not have room to pull it forward and out, in which case it may have to be cut and replaced with two smaller tanks. Ranger will most definitely be able to answer your question. However, before you go through that. Why not have the dealer flush the system and wait a few days and see if there continues to be an issue?

 

[Rebel]

We had a similar odor problem on our R25 and I discovered that the vent was not connect at the back of the tank. At sometime we had then filled the tank enough that waste slopped out of the tank into the bilge. Once I got the vent reconnected and the bilge washed the odor went away. Good luck in find the leak in your system.
John Turner, John's Folly

 

[Osprey]

I recall that posting some time ago, possibly relating to installing a composting head in a Ranger, discussed removing the holding tank. To get the tank out in one piece the owner had to first remove the lift muffler. However, unless the tank is leaking, say as a result of frost damage, I think it is very unlikely that the tank is the cause of the smell. Hoses are another matter. All hoses of sanitary systems will eventually smell. I believe the factory installed hoses are what could be described as “good”, but hoses of much better quality are available. i.e. “better” and “best”. Recently, while installing a carbon vent filter, I cut out a section of the original vent hose, 2 years old, and this hose really stank. Hoses which carry the actual sewage can only be much worse. The explanations you are getting from the broker seem to be “horse feathers” to me. There is a lot of good advice provided earlier in this thread such as: leaks from hose connections, open connections and inadequate flushing of lines and tank. In addition, use of quality tank treatment product can help a lot. A while back “Practical Sailor” magazine evaluated a number of such tank treatment products.