How to properly run a C30 with 435hp for longevity?

serpa4

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 20, 2020
Messages
286
Fluid Motion Model
R-23 (Sterndrive)
Hull Identification Number
FMLC3051D818
Vessel Name
DayLo
MMSI Number
368173760
I've read a lot on these forms about various topics on how to properly run the Volvo engines. Is there a consolidated thread on this topic?
1) Max RPM run time? I.e. 30min at WOT? I have no idea. This assumes you don't get hot.
2) Max sustained 24/7 RPM (what is the max RPM I should cruise at for 10 hours?) not that I'd boat for 10 hours!
3) Is there a max turbo boost pressure? Can this be measured?
4) What is the max sustained engine temperature to run at all day long without issues?
5) What is the peak, back down engine temperature? I.e. if you hit 200, back down now.
6) What is the lowest you should safely run the fuel level down to? 10% 20%?

Any other advice?
I plan to survey a 2015 CW30 the Friday and am very curious.
 
You will get many opinions. The following except is from the Volvo Penta product range brochure. This the only place I have found the load operation recommendations.

...
RATING 4 (5*)
(Special Light Duty Commercial)
For light planing craft in commercial operation. Recommended minimum speed at cruising = 25 knots. Full power could be utilized max 1 h per 12 h operation period. Between full-load operation periods, engine speed should be reduced at least 10% from the obtained full-load engine speed, and the load should be cycled between 20% and 85%.
...
(a table is included here listing the engine model numbers with this rating. The table will not render on this web site. All the D3, D4, and D6 engines are in this table as Rating 5.)
...
* RATING 5. This power is intended for pleasure craft applications, and can be used for high-speed planing crafts in commercial applications with special limited warranty, see warranty handbook.
** Crankshaft power
...

Curt
 
Red Raven":10rdoqww said:
You will get many opinions. The following except is from the Volvo Penta product range brochure. This the only place I have found the load operation recommendations.

...
RATING 4 (5*)
(Special Light Duty Commercial)
For light planing craft in commercial operation. Recommended minimum speed at cruising = 25 knots. Full power could be utilized max 1 h per 12 h operation period. Between full-load operation periods, engine speed should be reduced at least 10% from the obtained full-load engine speed, and the load should be cycled between 20% and 85%.
...
(a table is included here listing the engine model numbers with this rating. The table will not render on this web site. All the D3, D4, and D6 engines are in this table as Rating 5.)


...
* RATING 5. This power is intended for pleasure craft applications, and can be used for high-speed planing crafts in commercial applications with special limited warranty, see warranty handbook.
** Crankshaft power
...

Curt

Thanks. Where can I download that brochure?
 
I have talked to a lot of experienced boats on this. Basically what I got out of it all. Is to run the engine to cruising speed which should be 80%. Diesels, like to run hard. Than before getting into the slip to run it at 100% for 20 to 30 minutes.
 
Its going to be up to you how you treat the engine.
check out what John Deere does with their engines.

https://www.deere.com/en_CAF/docs/produ ... _guide.pdf

If you just start doing the math you'll find that the M1 rating for greater than 3k hours a year is 1.8 gallons per liter.
notice the chart the same blocks longevity is rated by x amount of fuel through the block. They JD use 18 hp per gal of diesel. ball park stay below 2 gallons of diesel per liter and your engine will last a long time. Put more than 2.5 gallons per liter and you can see they change the hours. M1 can run greater than 3k hours a year, yet as an M5 it is rated for less than or equal to 300 hours a year.
Stuart
also some good reading by Tony Athens at the seaboard marine and Tonys tips https://www.sbmar.com/tonys-tips/
I run my CW D4-260 around 2 gal liter which is 7.4 gal/hr and cruise 14mph,boost 12psi,oil 66psi, rpms 2600.
 
I agree with automaticman865 in his operation assessment. I believe in operating theses high speed diesels conservatively. Fortunately for you the D6 435 is known as a work horse and is more than enough power to push the C30. I read between the lines in the Volvo recommendations 1hr WOT of a 12 hour day operation. What this means is if a Volvo tech runs a scan he can tell if the engine has been run as per recommendations and not abused.D6 @ 500 hrs should have less than 41 hours of WOT operation. 85% to 20% cycled load means that it should have an average operating load between 85% and 20%. It doesn't mean it is ok to operate it continuously at 85% load or 20% load. It means operating the engine with average life time load of 40% . 21.4 gph max burn. 40% = 8.56 gph. If you maintain an operational life time of 8.56 gph of fuel burn you will have the designed longevity of the engine.

This doesn't mean you should not run above 8.56 gallons per hour. It is the average. Example: You cruise for two days at 17 GPH , 80% load which would by high cruise speed for the C30 and then cruised at hull speed 3 gph for 1 day averaging 8 hour days. The average GPH burn would be 12.3 gph higher than 8.56 gph ,slightly above 50% load and close to 2 gph per liter (11 gph) but still conservative . Longevity should be calculated by fuel usage and cycles.

You can run it hard when you need to. The Idea of diesels want to be run hard is old school thinking. If the engine is a commercial rated engine operating at 80% to 100% load, ok. Most commercial fishing boats and commercial Tugs run WOT or close to but they are designed to and most are derated to perform max torque but turn low rpm. There is a big differance between a D6 5.5L diesel with a max HP of 435 hp @ 3500 rpm and a D5 Volvo 4.76 L with a Max 139 Hp @ 2300 rpm. The D6 run at 100% or 80% load all the time will have a limited longevity. The D5 run at 100% load will operate for 1000's of hours with no issues. Not all diesels are created equally.

The D6 has a good reputation and I believe a perfect match for the C30. You should be able to maintain a good cruising speed without working it too hard.
 
what are talking about in terms of difference in longevity if this approach isnt followed for such an engine?

are we talking a reduction hours before a rebuild is reqired by half? by 10%?

For many of us who put 50ish hours a year. how long will it be before that milestone comes up anyway?
 
Thanks. I "hope" to be able to cruise at 16-18/19kts for a good amount of time to get to a destination, then back off for days at hull speed. I don't really need a high top speed or long time at WOT, just cruise for many hours at 16-18kts, then back down for days putt putt putting.
So, if I "should" maintain 80% load based on fuel consumption that means about 16gph sustained. WOT is about 20gph x .8=16gph.
So, somewhere between 14kts (9gph) and 20kts (13gph=65% load) should be perfectly fine for a long haul 6+ hours as long as I work in some much lower hull speed to balance the equation. I'll have to see a chart at what speed is roughly at 80% load but seems like I'll never really need to cruise above 20kts anyways. 20kt cruise is fast, pretty fast for me. C30/435hp should fit the bill nicely.
Why the concern for me? There are a few long long runs that I'd like to make while only boating in the day time and avoiding night passages. The longest runs at 18-20kts will get me between A and B all during day light hours.
 
Cutwater28GG":3vwhl2ig said:
what are talking about in terms of difference in longevity if this approach isnt followed for such an engine?

are we talking a reduction hours before a rebuild is reqired by half? by 10%?

For many of us who put 50ish hours a year. how long will it be before that milestone comes up anyway?

If you put 50 hrs a year and run it hard every year for 10 years it will just be getting broke in. You will have more external failures because of age and moisture than internal mechanical failures. For the boater that cruises and puts 300 hrs a year more attention needs to be put into operation and load. A ten year old boat is still a newer used boat. A diesel that has 3000 hrs on it, well maintained and operated at manufactures recommendations, propped correctly capable of turning max rpm. Will have a lot of life left in it. A High speed, high Hp diesel that is run hard probably will not make 3000 hours.

Engine hrs is not really a good reference. Fuel burn is a better reference. A D4 with 1000hrs on it that has been used to cruise an average of 8 kts will have far less internal wear compared to a D4 that has been used to cruise 20kts average. The 8Kts average cruise if burning around 3 GPH and the 20 kt average cruise if burning 12 GPH the difference in 1000 hrs is 3000 gallons of full burn compared to 12000 gallons of fuel burn. If the average D4 has a operating life of 30000 gallons of fuel burn. The fast cruise D4 end of life is 2500 hrs. The slow cruise D4 end of life is 10000 hrs.
 
Was searching for a thread on the D6-435 max RPM. Can someone validate this? The engine serial sticker says 3500RPM, but I feel like my mechanic told me 3700RPM during the survey... Not that I ever run it up to WOT, I never have. I tend to cruise at 3000-3200RPM.
 
The 435Hp was rated at 3500 rpm. IMO the engine should be propped to turn 3550 to 3600. if you can turn 3500 or more the max rpm you should cruise at is 3150 which is 10% below max rated RPM. If you can only turn 3400rpm I would not run continually above 3000rpm. Personally I would not run above 2800 rpm or 15 GPH if you are looking for longevity.

The newer 440 hp Volvo is rated at 3700 rpm.
 
Thanks Brian! Super helpful, as always. 🙂
 
FWIW the Volvo techs at 2019 Rendezvous said max RPM for 435 should be in the range of 3400-3600 (ideally closer to 3600), and that it was OK to run at 80% most of the time, i.e. 2800 RPM. That aligns pretty closely with Bryan's notes.

On our 2019 C30, max RPM is 3630 every time I check. We typically cruise at 2100 or 2400 for slower cruise, and 2800 for faster. 2800 RPM is usually about 11-12 GPH, and 14-17 kts, depending on load and conditions. It goes up to 22 GPH and around 26 kts at WOT of 3630 (which honestly IMO is too fast for any comfort except in completely glassy conditions in the PNW, due to potential deadhead logs etc).
 
Great additional data points. Sounds like I’m cruising a little fast if I’m at 3200. Will back it down to 2800-3000.
 
Regardless of your strategy you can replace one of the parameters on your volvo engine display to % load. As an example on my D4 320 running the boat at 80% load indication results in an rpm of approximately 3250 rpm. My WOT rpm is 3600-3650 rpm.
 
Dbsea .. just run where you like to run with you, guests and family. The engine will be fine for the amount for time you will own the boat. And will have hundreds even thousands of mile left for the next owner. These engines, even totally abused will run 2k hours. Easy. A Prior poster also made good point. All the other stuff will fail well before the engine itself. The engine itself, if used regularly, will outlive the boat. So just enjoy and don’t perseverate over a couple hundred RPM.
 
iggy":28vzope0 said:
I have talked to a lot of experienced boats on this. Basically what I got out of it all. Is to run the engine to cruising speed which should be 80%. Diesels, like to run hard. Than before getting into the slip to run it at 100% for 20 to 30 minutes.

I have heard/seen a lot about the "80% of load" rule. I wonder what load equates too? Power? Torque? Fuel consumption? I have found the Volvo spec sheet for the engine I am getting and it provides graphs for power, torque, and fuel consumption as they relate to RPM.

In my example the engine is rated 320 HP @ 3,600 rpm. I am estimating that at 80% of RPM (or 2,880), I would get 93% hp, 95% of torque (less at WOT), and 65% of max fuel consumption. I had assumed that 80% of load refers to producing 80% power (HP or torque).

But - and perhaps I am answering my own question - it seems that 80% or RPM is a bit of a sweet spot for the D4-320 and maybe similarly for other engines.
 
Sandro":qescdf6k said:
Dbsea .. just run where you like to run with you, guests and family. The engine will be fine for the amount for time you will own the boat. And will have hundreds even thousands of mile left for the next owner. These engines, even totally abused will run 2k hours. Easy. A Prior poster also made good point. All the other stuff will fail well before the engine itself. The engine itself, if used regularly, will outlive the boat. So just enjoy and don’t perseverate over a couple hundred RPM.


Sandro is spot on with some of his comment. These engines totally abused will run as much as 1500 to 2000 hours. For the weekend warrior boater that puts 50 to100 hours a year running it on the pins or running 80% load (3200rpm if properly propped) as a normal cruise speed. In ten years if well maintained the engine could still be a decent motor for the next owner. If you are a Sport Fish owner and want to get off shore in a hurry. Run them hard !! Many do and the life expectancy of these high speed diesel is cut short but that is the price to pay to play and many sport fish boat owners know this. They want big HP engines to run hard and fast. They are willing to spend the$$$ at 1500 or 2000 hours. So yes if you want to run the engine hard and follow Volvo's recommendation of continual rated operation at 90% of WOT or 80% load the engine will last at least long enough that Volvo will not be responsible to replace it. When you sell the the boat and the buyer knows the engines probably need to freshened up and this reflects the price of the boat. So yes enjoy the boat and run it hard and plan on spending some $$$ if you plan on keeping the boat or being up front with the future owners that you ran them hard.

I was at the marina this week ( home for a few days in the cold midwest) and in the shop was 4 D6 long blocks that were pulled from a two Prestige yachts. Two of the D6 had close to 3000 hours and two of them were at 1500 hours based on what the tech told me. Both boats had a history of running hard. The engines with 3000 hours, a boat that had the same captain for all 3000 hours, but ran the engines 3000+ rpm plus because he felt that is in his opinion where the boat performs and rides the best. It was a 2016 Prestige. Not a weekend warrior. The boat summered in the Midwest and ran south to Florida for winters. The engines both were down on compression and blowing oil. The total job for the engine refits with new long blocks and exchanger rebuilds plus parts and labor was just short of 100K. The engines with 1500 hours were in a boat also late model year 4 or 5 years old. Owned by a time share group. Several owners owned the boat and I assume have the same thought process as Sandro, run them hard and enjoy them! I believe they did. The engines too were low on compression, power, hard starting, burning oil and sooting up the transom. Based on the conversation I had with the technician. He said most of the bolt on components were good but he was replacing some of them for reliability purposes.

In talking to the service technician who I have known for years in fact I trained him when he was hired by the marina in 2000 as an apprentice from a vocational school. He said D4 and D6 engines have been very dependable and they have several customers with over 4000 hours on their engines and still running strong. Most of the boats that they service are larger planing hull boats that are powered with D6's. They do have some smaller mid 30' range with D4's. He said Volvo rates them at 80 % load for continual operation but the reality of that is the reduction of longevity. There are folks that don't care if the engines are going to wear out sooner they want to run hard and fast and know that comes with a price. He tells his customers 2500 to 2800 is were they like to run and will run there for many hours. Once again these are planing hulls unlike the Rangers and Cutwaters that are semi-displacement hull requiring a lot more power to push them at higher speeds. So 2800 is probably the rpm to zero in on. The D4 and D6 are the same engine design the D6 just has 2 more cylinders. 320 hp D4 3.7 L =86hp per liter and the D6= 79 hp per liter ( sports car engines) compared to what the commercial boats are using.

For the folks that want the power to push them through the water when they need to and cruise slower for the long haul the D4 and D6 engines will easily give 5000 hours and more if well maintained.
Based on what this thread is about "How to Properly run with 435HP for longevity" Operating this 5.5 liter engine that is rated at 435hp which is 79 horse power per liter. Does not fall into the same category as the diesels of old that were 33 horse power per liter= 200 hp. You could you could run theses engines on the pins for 10,000 hours. You could run the D6 435 hp for 10,000 hours too if you ran them at 200 hp all day long.

So there may be several answers to this question based on what is thought to be longevity. If longevity is concidered 2000 hours. Run the engines to the pins and back off a couple hundred rpm. Let them "Sing"!! If longevity is getting the industry standard rating of 40 % average load of the operating life of the engine. Expecting 5000 hours, which many folks cruising the waters experience this. Be conservative and run the engines 2500 to 2800 rpm. You may get the chance to see the hour meter turn to 5K. If you don't the next owners of you boat will.
 
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