Norm, I was planning on using a Honda generator on board the C26. It was an inexpensive way to have 120V power. I know many use them with success but there are many safety warnings that need to be addressed. The biggest is CO. I never realized how much CO these little machines emit. Considerably more then a marine generator manufactured after 2002.There was a thread on the AGLCA last year that I posted about portable generators safe use and I was crucified. I still belief with limited use they can serve a purpose on board but with no complacency. Here is the post and one of the responses.
I'm posting to this topic which has turned into a who's right, who's wrong! The topic originated from Charles stating Harbor freight had portable Generators on sale. I don't think his intent was to start a debate about should you use them or not. That truly should be left up to the boat owner without a debate. Advise on precautions or if you do use a portable generator the hazards are..... Ways to prevent theses hazards are..... I think the best answer is, if you need a Generator onboard for continuous use to power up your house 120V services it should be a marine unit wired in accordance to ABYC standards. That is black and White! Here is grey, I don't need a on board generator to power up my house 120V services. I don't want a $8000.00 unit sitting in a compartment that gets used very little and is taking up valuable space. Solution, small portable generator. Are there safety hazards associated with this ? Yes! Am I aware of them? yes! Would I tell a fellow boater that I advise using a portable generator? No! Can I safely over come the hazards of the use of a portable Generator ? Yes ! Would I ever install a portable generator as a permanent installation? No! Would I ever compromise the safety of anyone or myself ? No! I posted this list before on a previous post and the response was
"I just saw this post and had to get up on my soapbox"
Really ! How about commenting in a constructive way, explaining how to improve this list or where the safety is being compromised. Go through the points and comment on the hazard and how to improve.
* Output 2000W
*Light weight under 50lbs
*Quiet
*known manufacturer for warranty and parts availability
*Ability to attach a remote fuel tank ( I already have gas onboard for my outboard, stored in a designated store box installed by the boat manufacturer. I want to use my outboards remote tank for the gas supply.
*redundancy of CO detectors on board
*Do not plug the shore power cord into the Generator.( Generator is not associated with the boats electrical system while operating)
*Use a dedicated extension cord for the generator rated for 20 amps attach a power strip with a built in circuit breaker, plug your equipment- appliance, additional converter/charger ( not your onboard charger unless it can be isolated from the panel keep the generator separate from your shore power panel)
* Do not use the generator while the boat is moving.
* store in a ventilated area with generators internal fuel tank empty and carb run dry.
* Do not run the generator when not onboard.
This is not an installed generator it is a small portable used for a limited use to charge the batteries and use with small appliances ( that are not associated with the main electrical panel) used while replenishing the batteries. It can be used safely if you understand the hazards and are not complacent.
Brian Brown
26 Cutwater
PORT-A-GEE
portageelooper.blogspot.com
One of many negative but informative post responses:
Loral/Brian,
Let me speak to just the electrical issues here. I will only touch on a couple of them, because the potential hazards vary with the specific generator design and the specific use case. In fact, I submit the you and I are not aware of all of the possible risks here. Failure scenarios are complicated, and changing one condition can greatly affect the probability and impacts of any particular variable. Ships sink. There is never just one cause. Its always a cascade of negative events and poor decisions. The same thing is true here.
The manner in which most people use portable generators on boats is to connect them to the boat's shore power inlet to charge batteries. In that way, the generator looks like shore power to the boat's electrical system. At least, that's the intent.
Most small portable generators do not have neutral-to-ground bonds. In a properly wired boat, there are not supposed to be neutral-to-ground bonds in the shore power electrical system aboard the boat because the neutral-to-ground bond is in the shore power infrastructure ashore. But with a portable genset, since there may not be a ground, there in no known, fixed output polarity. There is 120V between the positive and negative receptacle pins, but this is now a "floating neutral" system. What can happen in a floating neutral system is not always entirely predictable. Floating neutral systems were what we had in homes prior to the 1950s.
There is a picture of several boats rafted together on the AGLCA website masthead. Suppose two adjacent boats of the raft are running floating neutral portable generators. One of the two has installed an "Edison plug." If the handrails are bonded, there is a possible shock hazard between the two boats. And, that shock hazard is likely worse in salt water than fresh water because of the better conductivity between the two hulls.
If there is no neutral-to-ground bond in the electrical system, there is no fault-clearing path in the event of a ground fault, which is all by itself a serious fire and shock hazard.
If a portable genset is dragged into the woods and an extension cord is run from the genset to the boat, any fault onboard will dump power into the water and the fault current will flow through the water back to the portable genset. That is a threat of variable, unknown and unknowable instantaneous magnitude with a floating neutral system. It is also more dangerous to people, pets, farm animals and wildlife in fresh water than in salt water.
Even though there are not supposed to be neutral-to-ground bonds on a boat, we know from experience that as many as 50% of boats do have them. That's why affected boats trip the new ground fault sensing breakers on docks. So now add an "Edison" plug to a small portable genset that has built in GFCI output breakers, and the GFCIs will trip. Will the average boat owner understand whats's happening and be able to recover? Or will they circumvent the issue to "just make it work?"
On land, the National Electric Code is law (as a regulatory code) in all 50 states. For boats, there is no law ("lawless"); there is only the ABYC and the NMMA, and the ABYC Standards are voluntary recommendations, only loosely and unpredictably enforced by surveyors and the marine insurance industry. No one can actually stop a boat owner from doing something unsafe on their own boat. I have personally witnessed boat fires caused by people who did their own thing because they thought they understood the risks.
Again, these portable genertors ARE NOT intended for use on boats. On land, their use is regulated by OSHA (through regulatory code). OSHA does not allow an "Edison Plug" on a portable genset on a job site. So perhaps someone can explain to me, why do we think it's OK to do that on a boat "...just to make it work?"
Paul is definitely right about one thing he said. Big numbers of people do this stuff and get away with it. All of these scenarios require multiple simultaneous failures for the risks to actually be realized. But none of these risks are present with a permanent generator installed to ABYC standards. And if you can't afford a proper genset, how will you afford recovering from injuries caused to someone else by using a cheap portable genset?
I have not discussed the additional CO and fuel handling issues with portable generators in this post...
For me, this is not "about who's right and who's wrong." For me, this is about TRYING to educate people about complex and unpredictable risks, in a boating club to which I belong, and about whom I care, to try to prevent financial loss, injury or even death in some very obscure situations.
These portable generators are not intended for use on boats. They are not warranted for use on boats. No acknowledged safety expert suggests, recommends of approves their use on boats. Knowing that, we are all left do whatever we think is best.
As I said yesterday, the opinions in this post are those of the author... Please, be safe out there!
Jim
http://gilwellbear.wordpress.com
Monk 36 Hull #132
MMSI #367042570
AGLCA #3767
MTOA #3436
I'm not on the band wagon do not use a portable Generator. If you use one use it with caution and no complacency. I do not use the generator as I originally planned to. I use it just for charging the batteries while on the hook for a few day's with a separate designated charger ( not the on board charger). I never plug the boats electrical system ( shore power plug) into the portable generator. I also use a 1000W generator lighter smaller with enough capacity to fulfill my needs. Just my opinion.
Sorry for the long explanation. I don't know how to make a short explanation :shock:
