Kisae 2000 W charger/inverter question

[Gin]

With the unstable NW weather of late, I feared we might lose power at our boathouse, which is 60 miles from home. That didn’t happen, but if it had, the house batteries would quickly have been run down by the space heater and a dehumidifier I had running on board. Especially if, as has been true the last few days, roads were closed or treacherous to travel so that I couldn’t get to the boathouse to shut them off.

After reviewing the Kisae owner’s manual, I decided that at times like these, I’d be better off with the In0 setting, rather than the In1. The difference is that with In0, if shore power goes off, the inverter does not continue to provide power to AC loads. The In1 setting, on the other hand, provides “backup” power to AC loads through the inverter if shore power goes off. The result, of course, is that , is that the house batteries get drained, and quickly so with a load like a space heater.

I ran into two issues today when I tried to change the Kisae setting. First, the change wouldn’t take. Each time, after I set it to In0 and then scrolled through and checked the setting, it had gone back to In1. I think that may be due to a user error on my end. I just reread the manual and it looks like I need to change the setting and hold down the “select” button for a full 5 seconds for it to take. I will try that on my next trip.

The other issue is that my unit had settings that the manual doesn’t describe. After I scroll through In0, In1, and In2, it goes on to In3 and In4, neither of which are documented in the manual. I searched on Kisae’s website and can’t find anything about them.

Does anyone know what In3 and In4 are? I may try calling Kisae to ask. But until then, if anyone has run into this and has it figured out, please post what those settings are for.

Thanks!

Gini

 

[Alpina]

I actually had the same situation yesterday.

1) Yes you have to hold the select button for 5 seconds until you hear a beep.

2) was wondering about ln3 and ln4 myself. Let me know what you hear please.

Also makes sure you are have sdl selected vs sdh. I had changed the setting the sdh in the past to shutdown the inverter sooner in case batteries drained. I noticed I couldn’t run my microwave but for a few seconds. That was the culprit as the draw on the batteries caused the voltage to hit the threshold and shutdown the inverter. We changed the setting back to sdl that and it worked fine thereafter. Likely your space heaters would cause this voltage dip upon start up. I’d test it if I were you.

Franco


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[Dubs]

Good post. I have a related question. Our R31 has the factory settings on the Kisae, including “FLd” for battery type. This would be an incorrect setting for a boat with AGM batteries. Since nothing catastrophic has happened in 3 years with the battery type error, why are there different settings for AGM vs Flooded batteries?

 

[Alpina]

Good post. I have a related question. Our R31 has the factory settings on the Kisae, including “FLd” for battery type. This would be an incorrect setting for a boat with AGM batteries. Since nothing catastrophic has happened in 3 years with the battery type error, why are there different settings for AGM vs Flooded batteries?

Mine was set up for Flo also. Just changed it to AGM the other day. The setting changes the voltage used for the various charge modes. There is only a 0.1V difference between Flo and AGM which doesn’t seem meaningful but maybe there is something happening behind the scenes (charge rate) that is different. Not obvious from the manual, though.

Franco


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[Martin610]

There isn't a whole lot off difference in technology between flooded lead acid, sealed lead acid and absorbed glass mat. They are all lead acid type batteries. The AGM type has the acid within the mat so it doesn't slosh around. It was originally developed for aircraft to save money. Prior to that aircraft had to use Ni-Cads which were wicked expensive in the sizes needed.

Very appropriate for boats too, but really not a game changer.

 

[YukonRon]

Good post. I have a related question. Our R31 has the factory settings on the Kisae, including “FLd” for battery type. This would be an incorrect setting for a boat with AGM batteries. Since nothing catastrophic has happened in 3 years with the battery type error, why are there different settings for AGM vs Flooded batteries?

We had the opposite experience, where our boat has FLA batteries and came to us with the ProMariner inverter/charger set to AGM. We bought the boat used so it may not be the factory setting. Being of a mind to not mess with something that is working fine unless you are ready to deal with possible consequences, I never did get around to changing it. I'll never really know if it has made any minor difference to the batteries, but we've never had any problems. I'm now changing to a Xantrex Freedom XC inverter/charger so I will be sure to set the new one up appropriately.

 

[FlyMeAway]

The difference is that with In0, if shore power goes off, the inverter does not continue to provide power to AC loads. The IN1 setting, on the other hand, provides “backup” power to AC loads through the inverter if shore power goes off.

This is a really awesome feature to know about, and one which is new to me! We've solved this problem simply by turning off the battery switches, but that means we can't run DC loads (like a boat monitor, or the fridge) while away from the boat.

Can I ask, what happens when you're underway / the engine is on? Will AC loads run if power is coming from the inverter (vs. shore power), or do you have to change the setting for that as well?

 

[Gin]

To FlyMeAway: good question. Underway, the alternator would be outputting current and charging the batteries. I don’t think the inverter “sees” that current as an AC source as it does shore power. If I’m right about that, then the inverter would behave the same as when shore power goes out — you have to turn it on manually.

Here’s how the manual explains the In0 “non-backup” setting:

Non-Backup Mode
Same as Auto Backup Mode but when there is a power failure of the utility or the AC input source is not available, the inverter will not turn ON automatically. You are required to manually turn ON the inverter.

To Franco: Thanks for the confirmation on how to change a setting. I did check all settings the other day when I tried to change to In0. The battery under voltage setting was on sdl. Appreciate the tip on that, though.

For those who are interested in the In3 and In4 settings, if I figure out what they do, I’ll post what I learn.

Gini

 

[SJI Sailor]

I had the same question a while back. After some searching, it *appears* that In3 means AC will come from inverter power only (no shore power will be used even if it is available). That seems undesirable in almost all cases, except maybe some maintenance debugging.

In4 is the same as In1, but the on/off button will turn off the shore AC in addition to inverter AC, if I understand correctly. That seems unnecessary on our boats since an AC switch is also available nearby (but perhaps would be marginally useful on some other boat).

I found those in a related product that uses Abso, page 15 here: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... O_YcP_H9cf

 

[Gin]

SJI Sailor, good research on your part! That ABSO product sure looks related to our Kisae ABSO inverter/chargers. The control unit is identical and the info in the manual on error codes, settings, etc. is the same. I’m betting that the description in that manual accurately describes what our undocumented In3 and In4 settings do.

If so, then the interesting question is whether it is also accurate for how the In0 setting works. Per the quote I pulled from the Kisae manual in my earlier post, in the In0 setting, the inverter will still operate manually. But per page 11 of the manual you linked to, the inverter is completely disabled and the setting has to be changed:

Non-Backup Mode (with “In0” setting)
Same as Auto Backup Mode but when there is a power failure from the utility or the AC input source is not available; the inverter will not turn ON automatically. To turn on the inverter you are required to get into the setting mode to change the “In0” setting to “In1” or others.

Some trial and error may be required to figure out just what In0 will and won’t do on our units.

Gini

 

[SJI Sailor]

Good question and if I get to the boat soon, I will test it. But I suspect they are saying the same thing, just poorly worded here. But good to check!

 

[Gin]

Look forward to your test results. Do post what you learn!

 

[Joan and Jim]

I had some similar questions of Kisae. I dealt with Ricardo Torassa - ricardo.kisae@gmail.com - 1 604 630 8680 (ext - 506). He was very helpful. His replies to me were prompt, thorough and courteous.

 

[Gin]

I just finished up an email exchange with Ricardo as well. Yes, he was very helpful.

It turns out that some of us have Kisae units that have updated software on them. One update added the In3 and In4 setting. A later one added a In4 and In5 setting. Kisae put out an “addendum” to the manual documenting those (and maybe other) changes. Ricardo sent it to me. When I replied by asking him if it was posted on the website, he said it isn’t, but in response to my question, he posted it on Googledocs and made it public. He sent me a link so that anyone on the forum who would like to download it can.

Here’s the link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dfdKD75ZoAqZr_YCrcC4YGinQK3rEQsO/view

I’ll see if I can copy and embed in another post the table in it that outlines the functions of the added inverter settings. That way, if the Googledoc disappears in the future, this thread will still explain those settings to anyone who later discovers them. I have not yet had time to read through the documentation on the settings. I only glanced at them, and found them to be less than crystal clear. But collectively, I’m sure this group will get it figured out!

Gini

 

[Gin]

This is a follow up to my last post about the Addendum. There is a lot of information in the Addendum about changes to the functionality of the inverter settings of In3 and In4 (through one software update) as well as In5 and In6 (through a second software update, one that my inverter did not come with).

Anyone interested in those settings will be best off downloading the addendum and reading through the extensive narrative and tables. Trying to embed it into a post would be challenging and would make for an unwieldy post, I think.

As happens with a lot of these manuals, there seem to be some translations issues that render the info less than clear. But what I have gleaned from it so far is that:

• 
  
  *If I use the In0 setting, there is no “backup” function. That means that AC power is available only if shore power is on. If shore power goes off, the AC is cut off. And, contrary to what the original manual suggests, the inverter cannot be turned on and off manually to provide AC from the batteries. The In0 setting has to be changed for the inverter to work.
  
  *In4 might be another option for those who are concerned about losing shorepower and having the batteries drained by AC loads (as in a winter storm). Personally, I find the instructions on how to use that setting confusing, and unless and until I understand them better, I would probably just use In0 during threatening winter weather periods and change to and from In1 as needed.
  
  *In5 and In6 sound like they were designed for AC utility power outage situations. I haven’t read through the info on them carefully enough to understand exactly how they work, but they sound promising. Sadly, I don’t have them. But anyone who does should download the addendum and check them out.

Hope that helps. Anyone who experiments with the settings and learns more, please post what you discover.

Gini

 

[SJI Sailor]

Great to see that doc. In5 looks like an excellent setting for many purposes -- inverter will go off in case of power outage but can always be turned on with the button. I wish my unit had that option! (Although really I have never missed having the inverter while anchoring and could switch it on by changing to In1 if needed.)

 

[FlyMeAway]

Is it possible to upgrade the software?

 

[Gin]

Is it possible to upgrade the software?

I wondered the same thing. There is nothing in the original manual or addendum about upgrades, and no link to software upgrades on Kisae’s website. So it looks doubtful.

 

[FlyMeAway]

Just wanted to follow-up on this thread. Has anybody tried ln5 or ln6? The manual is confusing. How do they behave?

 

[Gin]

I haven’t tried the In5/In6 because my inverter does not have those options. I agree the manual addendum is confusing in describing what they do. But what I could glean from the manual made them look promising for anyone who wants a setting that more automatically protects your batteries for times when utility power (shorepower) cuts out and you are not on the boat.

If you do have the In5/In6 settings on your unit, it might be worth an email or even a phone call to Kisea’s tech support to clarify how and what they do. Their support has been good for me as well as others on the forum.

Gini