Let's discuss use of AIS Benefits

[baz]

I start this topic as I do have an interest in AIS. I've read a number of TugNuts posts on AIS (see refs below) and today ActiveCaptain ("We love AIS") has just issued a short lived discount (ends next Tues April 2nd) for an AIS product offered through Defender.

There are several Tugnuts that have this AIS system installed and from what I've read many, if not all, applaud its capabilities. Maybe we can get them to start off or respond to such a discussion topic on the AIS Benefits, DIY installation, cost aspects, AIS dedicated antenna, Receive&Transmit feature, some first-hand uses, stories where AIS has been of great importance, reliability, hardware/software accessories that work with AIS, Garmin AIS vs. other vendors, etc.

Thanks. 🙂

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_ ... ion_System

Then of course we already have a slew of AIS supporting topics & discussions to work from as well...

Ref: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2491&p=18138&hilit=ais#p18138

Ref: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2385&p=17167&hilit=ais#p17167

Ref: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2196&p=15817&hilit=ais#p15817

Ref: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1318&p=9305&hilit=ais#p9305

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[baz]

Here are some recent cost figures I scrounged up quickly...

Amazon sells the Garmin 600 AIS product for around $858.

Don't see Garmin 600 AIS on the Defender.com site

West Marine sells the Garmin 600 AIS for $1000

Defender sells the Vesper Marine XB-8000 AIS Transponder for $686 via the ActiveCaptain discount through Apr 2nd (next Tue). Adding the Antenna Splitter raises this to $883.19

Should one expect the Garmin 600 AIS to work more seamlessly with our Garmin 5212s on an R-25 vs. other vendor product such as the Vesper XB-8000 ?

 

[walldog]

Here are some recent cost figures I scrounged up quickly...

Amazon sells the Garmin 600 AIS product for around $858.

Don't see Garmin 600 AIS on the Defender.com site

West Marine sells the Garmin 600 AIS for $1000

Defender sells the Vesper Marine XB-8000 AIS Transponder for $686 via the ActiveCaptain discount through Apr 2nd (next Tue). Adding the Antenna Splitter raises this to $883.19

Should one expect the Garmin 600 AIS to work more seamlessly with our Garmin 5212s on an R-25 vs. other vendor product such as the Vesper XB-8000 ?

Comparing the Garmin AIS 600 vs the Vesper XB8000 you will find that the AIS 600 has a vhf antenna splitter built inside, Vesper charges another $200 and change for their splitter. The Vesper does have wifi which may work through a free app for your iPad. A little checking around will beat the Amazon price on the AIS 600. A true comparison of the two products should be between this one: Vesper Marine XB-8000 AIS Transponder with Antenna Splitter: $883.19
(Regularly: $959.99, List: $1048.00) and the AIS600.

I like the way my AIS 600 works with our other Garmin Navigation gear. I have some more thoughts on this subject which I will share when I have more time.

 

[baz]

I notice that using the web site http://ais3.siitech.com/VTSLite/AView.aspx I can click on a boat's location and get lot of useful data. One such piece is "Destination". How on earth is this information inserted by the boat's owner to show up in the popup data display ? I assume the owner somehow plugs this info into the AIS unit, right ?

 

[knotflying]

I don't know guys/gals, AIS seems to me like information overload at some point. Granted any information you can get can be helpful, but in my flying days see and avoid worked pretty well. Maybe on winding rivers and going around bends AIS might be helpful, but I have an app that I can use if and when it may be necessary. Haven't really needed it or used it since I got it last year. My observation is that at times technology develops and creates a dire need for something it can conquer. Kind of like the pen that the government developed so you could write in zero gravity. The Soviets used pencils.
Mike Rizzo

 

[baz]

I don't know guys/gals, AIS seems to me like information overload at some point. Granted any information you can get can be helpful, but in my flying days see and avoid worked pretty well. Maybe on winding rivers and going around bends AIS might be helpful, but I have an app that I can use if and when it may be necessary. Haven't really needed it or used it since I got it last year. My observation is that at times technology develops and creates a dire need for something it can conquer. Kind of like the pen that the government developed so you could write in zero gravity. The Soviets used pencils.
Mike Rizzo

What about on open waters in fog, heavy drizzle, poor visibility, nighttime, dazzling sun in your eyeballs, etc.

It's all about be prepared well in advance before you see the danger, right ?

 

[Crewdog]

I know I'm a newbie at boating, but I have logged a modest number of solo IFR in IMC cross country hours in single engine aircraft, and the realization that the responsibility for "see and avoid" still rests with the pilot in command despite being under ATC control.

Having that IFR ticket is no free pass to charge off into bad weather or exceed operator/aircraft capabilities.

All the gadgetry is great assistance, but as boat Cap'n now, responsibility for safe operation is still with me and the Mark 1 eyeball.

All that said, I think the AIS system would be a nice addition to our Nav package as our long distance cruising progresses.

 

[Don and Brenda]

I have a passive system built nto my VHF radio, the Standard Horizon 2150 this had been connected to by Raymarine C90 W chart plotter on my old boat. This sysytem was very nice while cruising in the ebnds and twists on the Sacramento Delta. I will be transferring this system to the new boat. This gives me then 2 VHF radios and 2 chart plotters.

 

[walldog]

I don't know guys/gals, AIS seems to me like information overload at some point. Granted any information you can get can be helpful, but in my flying days see and avoid worked pretty well. Maybe on winding rivers and going around bends AIS might be helpful, but I have an app that I can use if and when it may be necessary. Haven't really needed it or used it since I got it last year. My observation is that at times technology develops and creates a dire need for something it can conquer. Kind of like the pen that the government developed so you could write in zero gravity. The Soviets used pencils.
Mike Rizzo

Hi Mike,

I have done a bit of flying myself (low time commercial pilot). We had very few blind corners up there. We have quite a few more down here on the water. Radar does not see very well around mountains and levees. Our navigation and survival skills from flying certainly helps us on our boats, but some of the tools that make us safer are different. If the only place I cruised was here in the Tropical Tip of Texas, I would not have ever considered AIS. The commercial charter boat operators do not use it here. And yes they do anchor dead center of the channel to let their clients fish. Even here though I have been contacted by large tows out in the Gulf asking about conditions in the ship channel. As you leave here and travel North by the time you reach Corpus Christi, Galveston and Houston you will have had many encounters with tows and large vessels taking up most of the water deep enough to float a boat. Can I be safe in those waters without AIS? Sure. Will I be safer using it? Probably. Will it lull "ME" into a false sense of security? NO. I hope to always be alert and know what is happening outside my boat. For me I hope to always have AIS as a tool, being able to be aware of large commercial vessels before I can see them, but even more for them to be able to see me in the same manner.

I know that some of my friends do not believe that we as pleasure boats should have AIS transmit, but most of the commercial operators I have had contact with, seem to appreciate being able to see me also.

Herb

 

[knotflying]

We all have valid points and it really boils down to personal choices. I don't even use the radar overlay because I want a clear screen for my radar. Each time you cut the screen for another view you compromise what you are looking at as the field gets smaller and smaller. Overlay everything and eventually you have a screen full of everything! Plus each tid-bit of information has to be processed while concentrating on looking outside. The big boys are transmitting, but there are plenty of other boats out there without AIS. Your risk is probably worse with the small inexperienced and unprofessional boaters. At least when flying in instrument conditions everyone has the same equipment and are in a controlled environment. It is a much safer situation. Just one boater without AIS, with a false sense of security can be a disaster. Unless everyone is mandated to have it then it is more a distraction than a viable tool for safety. Of course this is my opinion. I liken it to Russian roulette; five chambers are empty and one isn't, so is it safe to play?

 

[Bruce Moore]

We are fairly new boaters - 5 years. We didn't install AIS (receiver only) until our fourth year. After using it for one season, we upgraded to a transducer. We share the Salish Sea with military, commercial, working, and recreational boats of all sizes. And, as Herb said, we have a lot of geographic features which obscure long range visual and radar tracking.

Without digressing too much, I don't have any flying experience, but I did spend three years on a submarine. We used sonar (passive - listening only) in much the way I use AIS as a pleasure boater. It allowed us to hear boats (threats), and learn much about them, well before we were in range of their active (pinging) sonar. It allowed us to make early decisions about course correction, in order to remain undetected and on mission.

Now our mission is to keep the pleasure in pleasure boating. Removing tension, and avoiding big corrections in the face of danger and/or constraints, helps us achieve that. While we are actively engaged in close range visual tracking, and using MARPA for mid-range "threats", we use AIS to make early, incremental decisions about how we're going to deal with big, fast ships - often before we can put eyes on them. Even when we can see them it's difficult to confidently predict their heading, speed, and probable time/distance of a close encounter.

Even in the best of conditions, we much prefer making a small speed or course correction 30 minutes in advance, and not be preoccupied by the heavies coming our way. This allows us to pay more attention to our mid-range and immediate water. It takes a bit of the edge off. It makes us safer. And it helps keep the pleasure in pleasure boating. Throw in some adversity, like bad seas or poor visibility, and the value proposition is even greater.

 

[Salish Rover]

We included the Garmin AIS 600 when our boat was built and it has worked flawlessly with the 7215 plotter and radar systems. We get positive comments from the both the commercial community and the CG. Can't imagine not having it from the overall safety aspect. No matter where I'm at in the world I can always check my iPhone and see where the Salish Rover is, that's fun !!

 

[knotflying]

There is an App, Marine Traffic. It gives you the same AIS information and it is free. I guess the drawbacks are if you do not have internet service and it does not plot your boat since you are not transmitting.

 

[Stella Maris]

Many of you know my opinion on AIS and I am sure a few of you will fire a shot over our bow for it. I believe that receive only is the way pleasure boats should go. As Rick stated above, it is our responsibility to keep a sharp lookout and avoid a collision at all costs.

Too many times I have clicked on a the icon for an AIS vessel to find out it has placed no data in the system. All I can see is its speed and course. No destination, name, anything. They just installed it and turned it on.

And then of course, when you finally make a visual contact with it, you find it is just some AWB that thinks he has made himself safer by installing this equipment.

We sailed the San Francisco Bay for many years without radar, a chart plotter, AIS, or any other type of electronic gear other than a VHF and depth sounder. We knew that we had to keep a vigilant watch to insure our safety. We sailed at night, in the rain, and fog. The only close call we ever had was another AWB that was not paying attention and almost T-Boned us! His radar was spinning away and we had our radar reflector in place yet, he still came within a hundred feet of us. We had to get out of his way.

As for being out in the fog and low visibility situations, we call into Seattle Traffic, give them our location, speed, direction and destination. We update them as we feel needed. They then inform any traffic that calls in as to our whereabouts. Then we both keep a close watch out the windows all around.

 

[Gin]

David, all the AIS stuff is new to us, and I've been reading through the threads with great interest. Learning lots. I may be the only one that doesn't know this . . . what is an AWB as referred to in your post? Sorry if it's a dumb question. Beyond that, I'm sure opinions on this subject vary a lot, but your reasons for thinking pleasure boats should be receive only make a lot of sense to me. Interested in the counterpoints, of course, too. But thanks for posting (even if it means you take some shots across the bow).

Gini

 

[Boondocker]

New to this site and relatively new to boating having joined the ranks of boaters within the last 5 years. I have, however, been heavily involved in the aviation community since 1989 either through the military or flying commercially. I've watched aviation technology evolve over the last 20 years I'm amazed now that I survived without one piece of equipment TCAS which only came on the seen for me about 14 years ago. It's the aviation equivelent of AIS and not all aircraft are required to have the system but for those that do it's an invaluable tool for maintaining situational awareness.

We currently have a Cutwater 28 on order, and we ordered it with the receive only version of AIS, but I am thinking of actually putting the send and receive system on the boat.

I may be relatively new to boating, and I'm certainly new to boating with advanced electronics (Installing Garmin, Autopilot, AIS), but it took me very little time to conclude that the cost of these systems compared to the overall cost of the boat are relatively nominal. And, like any safety system, AIS only has to save us "one" time to make it invaluable.

We had the benifit of going out with Jeff on a Cutwater for a seatrial. During the run I had him show me how he sets up the display for cruising. And, I found the system to be incredibly intuitive. Reading though this thread a few people expressed concerns about information overload, and I admit the potential is there. But I also submit the captain controls the amount of information on his display. I'm new to this particular Garmin system, but I imagine it's very similar to the systems we use in the airline world and imagine you are never more than a few keystrokes away from having just the right amount of information on display for you to use in your decision making process for any given situation.

I'd rather have the abiltiy to use a relatively inexpensive system and never have to employ it then not have it and wish I did to avoid a close call or worse.

Nice to meet everyone by the way. And, looking forward to running into you out on the the "Sound." We'll be in a yet to be built, yet to be named Cutwater 28. Currently screaming around in a Campion 28' Allante kept on a shelf in Foss Landing, Tacoma.

 

[knotflying]

David from Destiny makes some good points. And as you all know by now I am not yet thrilled with the potential safety of AIS. Another observation I have is that if everyone gets recieve only there won't be anything on your screen because no one is transmitting. A bit facetious, but as I pointed out before, it has limited effectiveness. David mentioned the guy who almost T-boned him. Even if David had AIS if the other guy was not transmitting it would have been of little use and perhaps David's guard would have been down thinking he was safer than usual.

 

[baz]

Although the website http://ais3.siitech.com/VTSLite/AView.aspx is no real alternative to an installed realtime AIS send/receive unit my grandson, using my iPad, finds it simply fascinating being able to identify boats around us. It will now be part of his 'lookout' duties. My only concern with this is that his head may be down rather than up or that he's not playing Angry Birds or some such thing instead of 'looking out'. 😀

 

[Lone Star Ranger]

My only concern with this is that his head may be down rather than up or that he's not playing Angry Birds or some such thing instead of 'looking out'. 😀

LOL...at least he's engaged, it's when it gets really quiet that makes you go, "uh-oh"! :lol:

 

[baz]

Here's an interesting piece of USCG information for AIS. It's a PDF file... http://www.uscg.mil/d13/psvts/docs/aissrsfinal.pdf I found searching about in my local Seattle area.

[Edit] ...and some other useful USCG docs (mainly for the Seattle Puget Sound area)

http://www.uscg.mil/d13/psvts/boaters_man/ and pay attention or at least note the last page. :roll:

http://www.uscg.mil/d13/psvts/docs/before_you_leave.pdf

http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/faq.aspx?level1=160

The USCG advise you not leave the dock in foggy conditions...
3. If it is foggy, do not leave your dock or your anchorage. Even if you have radar and a GPS, navigation in the fog can be hazardous.

So according to this USCG advice, we would be irresponsible leaving the dock to start a cruise when it's foggy. :? :roll: :!:

...and here's an interesting piece of information for reporting your boat's position the the Marine Service so that it cab entered on their AIS map, meaning this is another FREE way of having a virtual AIS transponder. Cool...
3. Email position reports
We are accepting position reports by email messages sent to report@marinetraffic.com. If you have either an established automated procedure to send email position reports or you wish to manually send your position to MarineTraffic, you may consider including the above email address to the recipients of your position messages.

Email position messages must be sent on regular intervals to report@marinetraffic.com in order to be able to display a continuous track of your vessel. Ideally, the message interval should be less than 15 minutes, but an interval of one hour or more is acceptable.

In order for us to be able to parse your report, the message should be preferably written in a standard format like the following:

_______________
MMSI=123456789
LAT=-33.74861
LON=151.51389
SPEED=11.2
COURSE=256
TIMESTAMP=2012-03-03 02:13
_______________
(Latitude and Longitude in decimal degrees – negative values for South or West coordinates. Speed in knots. Timestamp in UTC time)

Many other formats are acceptable, e.g.:

_______________
NameOfVessel
Latitude:28.42546
Longitude:-80.82784
GPS location Date/Time:03/03/2012 10:52:03 EST
_______________

The standard format send via Inmarsat is also acceptable.
Since there is no identification of the vessel within the message, we identify the vessel by the email address of the sender, which looks like this: 870xxxxxxxxx@message.inmarsat.com.
You may configure your Inmarsat device to send standard email position reports, like the following, at fixed time intervals to report@marinetraffic.com:
_______________
GPS fix

Lat: S 33 28' 55''
Long: E 151 38' 50''
Time: 02:13:10 UTC
Date: 03-03-2012
Velocity: 12 km/h
Course: 187

Accuracy
Horiz: +/- 8 m
Vert: +/- 16 m
_______________
If you intend to start sending your position reports by email, please send us a message expressing your intention to info@marinetraffic.com, including the MMSI number of your vessel, the email address of the sender of the reports and a sample of your position report.