Looking for opinions on removing my solar panel?

[Mike_B]

Hi,

I bought a new R25 Luxury Edition back in 2022. As I've used the boat I've noticed the power the solar panel provides really doesn't seem to make that much difference given the large discharge rates of the central heating and air conditioning system, which typically discharges around 400 to 500 amps on cold or warm nights. Simply put I feel the solar panel is a drop in the bucket so to speak on my boat. I can see where a solar panel might be advantageous on a NW edition because there isn't anything that creates a large electrical discharge. As we all know storage space is always a premium on a boat so I'm toying with the idea of removing the solar panel and installing a roof rack storage box. I'm thinking that space would serve me better as additional storage. As far as battery recharging is concerned, we carry a 3200-watt Honda generator for lake cruising and when we go to the San Jaun's / Puget sound we typically get a slip with power every other day for recharge and showers etc. So do you think it makes sense for me to remove my solar panel given my use profile? It seems like I'm going against the grain because everyone seems to be installing and or improving their solar panels. Any thoughts?

Thanks

 

[Submariner]

It's all about sizing the solar array to see if that is capable of fulfilling your usage profile.

The largest panels that will fit up top across the roof rack is a pair of 270 watt panels. It'll fill that space completely. In the Pacific NW, a pair of 270 watt solar panels would provide about 225ah a day during boating season.

If you're boating in Florida, for example, I'd expect a pair of 270 watt panels to bring in around 280ah. (based on math calculations referencing the solar isolation tables for Miami, FL).

If your needs exceed that, a generator is the answer.

Generators make noise, they give off CO which is deadly. They require maintenance. They also need to be turned on/off. Solar is quiet, requires no maintenance, works during daylight hours.

Don't worry about what everybody else is doing. Set your boat up for how you use it. Everybody boats differently.

 

[Mike_B]

It's all about sizing the solar array to see if that is capable of fulfilling your usage profile.

The largest panels that will fit up top across the roof rack is a pair of 270 watt panels. It'll fill that space completely. In the Pacific NW, a pair of 270 watt solar panels would provide about 225ah a day during boating season.

If you're boating in Florida, for example, I'd expect a pair of 270 watt panels to bring in around 280ah. (based on math calculations referencing the solar isolation tables for Miami, FL).

If your needs exceed that, a generator is the answer.

Generators make noise, they give off CO which is deadly. They require maintenance. They also need to be turned on/off. Solar is quiet, requires no maintenance, works during daylight hours.

Don't worry about what everybody else is doing. Set your boat up for how you use it. Everybody boats differently.

Submariner,

I hoped you would respond, I know you have given the topic of power management a lot of thought. We boat year round and troll fish for kokanee with electric downriggers a lot in the winter ( lots of DR up and down) while running on the 9.9. While trolling the kids are watching TV, heater is on ( or AC), cell phone amplifier is running, iPads are charging, fish finder is running etc…. You get the idea, we are big power users! The solar panel just really doesn’t seem to make that big of a difference, especially in the winter. I store my dinghy and kayaks on roof so another panel is out of the question.

On the topic of generators when lake fishing (9.9 trolling)we have to run the generator most of the day to keep the house bank from rapidly discharging. The lakes we fish are not heavily used when we fish, so our generator noise doesn’t really affect any one. When we go up to the San Jauns / Sound we leave the generator at home and schedule a slip every other day. We need the generator for our RV and House backup power so a generator was something we already had. Honda Generator maintenance is simple and cheap, no big deal there.

Im paranoid about the ill effects of generator emissions. I installed a very high end Smoke + Carbon Monoxide Alarm in addition to the Ranger factory installed equipment. We run the Honda generator strapped to the swim step and have never had the generator trigger our alarm(s). Interestingly we constantly have the F250 triggering the new alarm, especially when docking (slow speed operation). As a matter of fact I’ve even had the F250 trigger the alarm at medium speed while the kids were driving in large loops. It seems like co2 poisoning risk is MUCH higher with the F250 than our generator. With all that being said I make sure our battery bank is topped off at bedtime and engines are turned off.

Thanks for your input! I think I will be removing the solar panel. I might reinstall it when we go on our annual trip up to the Sound / San Jauns if it’s not that big of a job.?.?

 

[Submariner]

The T9.9 kicker has a 6 amp alternator. When I had my kicker connected to my house bank, the few amps it provided were always well less than what the boat was consuming with the autopilot, chart plotter, radio, etc... It really provides almost nothing in the way of electrical. Since I upgraded to LFP I moved the kicker to the thruster battery. If I'm running the kicker, electrically it's like I'm at anchor relying on solar.

You mentioned winter time with solar... With 400 watts of solar that I have, November - February in the Pacific NW, I see anywhere from 100 to 400 watt-hours. That's less than 30ah a day from an array that would give me 165ah during June. During the winter months, there are only 8 hours between sunrise and sunset in the PacNW. Summer time it's about 16 hours. The sun is also much lower on the horizon which negatively affects the array as well. Lastly, the winter months are usually very grey, overcast, clouds. Basically, Mother Nature is working against us for about 4 months. We do really well with solar from March - October on the boat.

The factory 160 watt panel during boating season (summer time) will return about 65ah a day. That's usable during boating season. For the off season, that panel is sized enough to keep the batteries topped off with most things on the boat powered off for off-season storage.

If you put MC4 connectors on your solar panel to connect to the boat you'd be able to easily disconnect and reconnect the solar panel based on your travels to the San Juan Islands during boating season. Ironically enough, we have a new video coming out shortly all about solar upgrades, and I show how to easily connect MC4 to the boat for quick-disconnects of solar panels. (I found a much easier way that doesn't require crimping MC4 connectors at all).

Those portable lithium banks are great for charging phones and tablets. I recommend those to folks as a method to conserve power on a boat. The TV on the boat will pull 20 watts.

The biggest loads on the boat are air conditioning and heating (on an LE), any 120volt alternating current loads (microwave, coffee maker, hot water heater), and the refrigerator. That's where the bulk of the power goes.

 

[Submariner]

Additionally... I've not had my CO detector go off.. but the propane leak detector in the galley has been set off from the exhaust from the T9.9 kicker with the wind from the stern. To clear the alarm I had to open up the windows and back door and changed directions to head into the wind.

 

[Mike_B]

The T9.9 kicker has a 6 amp alternator. When I had my kicker connected to my house bank, the few amps it provided were always well less than what the boat was consuming with the autopilot, chart plotter, radio, etc... It really provides almost nothing in the way of electrical. Since I upgraded to LFP I moved the kicker to the thruster battery. If I'm running the kicker, electrically it's like I'm at anchor relying on solar.

You mentioned winter time with solar... With 400 watts of solar that I have, November - February in the Pacific NW, I see anywhere from 100 to 400 watt-hours. That's less than 30ah a day from an array that would give me 165ah during June. During the winter months, there are only 8 hours between sunrise and sunset in the PacNW. Summer time it's about 16 hours. The sun is also much lower on the horizon which negatively affects the array as well. Lastly, the winter months are usually very grey, overcast, clouds. Basically, Mother Nature is working against us for about 4 months. We do really well with solar from March - October on the boat.

The factory 160 watt panel during boating season (summer time) will return about 65ah a day. That's usable during boating season. For the off season, that panel is sized enough to keep the batteries topped off with most things on the boat powered off for off-season storage.

If you put MC4 connectors on your solar panel to connect to the boat you'd be able to easily disconnect and reconnect the solar panel based on your travels to the San Juan Islands during boating season. Ironically enough, we have a new video coming out shortly all about solar upgrades, and I show how to easily connect MC4 to the boat for quick-disconnects of solar panels. (I found a much easier way that doesn't require crimping MC4 connectors at all).

Those portable lithium banks are great for charging phones and tablets. I recommend those to folks as a method to conserve power on a boat. The TV on the boat will pull 20 watts.

The biggest loads on the boat are air conditioning and heating (on an LE), any 120volt alternating current loads (microwave, coffee maker, hot water heater), and the refrigerator. That's where the bulk of the power goes.

Thanks! I’ll look into those MC4 connectors.

 

[Mike_B]

For anyone following this conversation with a Luxury Edition who’s having power challenges similar to mine I figured I would share my experiences with two different Honda generators I’ve owned. First off we often boat the lakes of California and Southern Oregon. It’s not uncommon for these lakes to get over 100 degrees in the summer, and below freezing in the winter. Dealing with this wide temperature range is where the Luxury Edition shines. In extreme temperature situations the limitations of the Luxury Editions 600 amp hour battery bank becomes evident. As a plan ‘B’ I chose the Honda brand generator because they build some of the quietest generators on the market. Also, Honda is known for high levels of product quality, both are important to me. I recently went from a Honda 2200 to the new Honda 3200. The 3200 can run the whole boat with everything on and stay in ‘ECO’ mode. Those not familiar with Hondas ECO mode it’s basically where the generator motor is at idle, or slightly above idle speeds. In this mode the generator is extremely quite (conversation level). When I tried to run everything with my 2200 watt it really caused the motor to ramp up to max RPM to meet the power demand ( more noise). Both Honda generators got the job done. The new 3200 watt EFI Honda is the superior generator, amazingly it’s not much bigger than the 2200. I highly recommend the 3200 for a Luxury Edition Ranger owner who given the right circumstances wants to be freed from the limitations of battery banks and solar ! My family isn’t much into power conservation, we rarely leave the dock without the generator! With that being said most of our boating is done in lakes that have few other boats on them so our generator noise only effects us. The Honda generator in ECO mode produces roughly the same Sound level as the kicker at trolling speed. Since we primarily troll fish when lake boating engine noise is already a part of our boating experience. When we do our summer cruise to the Sound / San Juan’s we leave the generator at home and schedule a marina slip every other day for recharging. I doubt most people at a Sound / San Juan anchorage want to listen to a generator run. I hope this post helps someone wanting to use a Luxury Edition Ranger in extreme temperature situations.

 

[Martin610]

I have what is essentially a luxury edition C-28. It has both solar panels and a generator.

I was able to mount a cargo rack on the starboard side of the solar panel. It's something like 2 feet by 5 feet. Nice extra storage. I keep a small dingy and clamming equipment up there.

Having the solar is nice, it cuts down the running time on the generator. I use the genny to bring my batteries up to 80%, the solar can take it the rest of the way.

This came in handy on my trip to Sailor's Haven on Fire Island last year. The National Park Service there has kind of a weird setup. The pedestals have only 50 amp. I had an adapter so I thought I was all set. Wrong! They have 50 amp/125 volt. Not so common anymore, I didn't have it. So even though I tied up to a dock, I still needed solar and genny. After a couple of days the marina attendant showed up and rented me the correct adapter.

Just something to consider.

-martin610

 

[YukonRon]

I don't know which panel you have, but our boat had a factory 130 watt, polycrystaline panel with a PWM controller. We upgraded to a 430 watt monocrystaline panel and MPPT controller for huge gains in efficiency. If we didn't store our inflatable dinghy on the roof, we could fit 2 more panels. As it is with one panel we were able to spend 4 weeks anchoring out with no generator or shore power. We don't have AC, but did run 2 fridges, wine cooler, microwave, etc, etc.