Need help with electrical issue

[Capt’nKarl]

2018 R-23 with 2 house, 1 engine and 1 thruster battery. Lost shore power to the boat a couple of days ago and battery voltage dropped below 10.8 volts. After fixing the shore power issue the batteries charged up to normal. With only the house battery switch on I happened to notice I had no power going to the CO detector in the 1/4 berth and no power to the high water bilge alarm ( I think, that’s all I’ve found). According to the instructions on battery configuration you have to reset the charging relay by switching on the parallel while the engine is running or plugged into shore power. Here’s the issue. While ON shore power Switching the parallel to the on position powers up the CO alarm and the high water bilge alarm but as soon as I turn the parallel switch off I loose power to both. I’m not sure what I need to do to “reset the charging relay”. Or is this boat meant to have the parallel switch on all the time? Any help is appreciated.
Karl

 

[BB marine]

When you say all batteries are fully charged. Are you stating engine, thruster and house batteries show full charge? I would guess that the thruster battery never lost a charge and the engine battery never lost a charge. The house batteries usually are the only battery bank that looses charge when power is lost. The ACR protect the other batteries by opening and isolating from the house. When the shore power is turned on and the battery charger is turned on the charger output is to each bank. The charger will need to see the discharged battery. This can be done by turning the parallel switch on. Leave it on until the battery charger can sense the battery. When on shore power the engine is not the source of charge. The battery charger is. This means that there is a possibility that the ACR are not closing because the charger output is not raising the batteries voltage above 13V. With shore power on, battery charger on, confirm charger output at charger readout, place the parallel switch to on position until the house battery and engine battery paralleled reach 13Volts then turn switch to off position. Now continue charging the batteries the battery voltage at the house bank should continue to charge. If it doesn't check the inline fuse on the charger output terminal at the house battery bank. There should be a red square fuse link with a 20amp fuse in it inspect to see if it blew.

 

[Capt’nKarl]

Thanks Brian. This is an issue I’ve not dealt with before so your suggestion is greatly appreciated. I’ll leave the parallel switch on overnight while the boats on shore power. Hopefully in the morning all batteries will be fully charged and I can put this demon to rest. Your help is really appreciated.
Cheers,
Karl

 

[iggy]

Something sounds very odd here. If the engine or the charger is on, the ARC should sence ether charge voltage and close. Both sources should be able to close the ARC. Two thing that will not allow the ARC to close in this case. Ether the battery that is being charged is bad or very weak not allowing the charge voltage to go up. Or the battery on the other side of the ARC is below 10V.

Now if the battery is just weak but good. In time it will charge up, the voltage will rise and the arc will close. If the voltage on the other side of the ARC is 10V or less (roughly) than the parallel switch must be used so the charger can see that battery and bring it up. This is one reason that switch was installed.

Now I might be missing something in your case, but this is how it should work. What I am really driving at is, the ACR could care less where the charge voltage is coming from.

 

[Capt’nKarl]

Thank you for the response. It’s certainly possible that after 3 years the house batteries are failing. I’ll know more in the morning after having the parallel switch on all night and shore power connected. I just found it odd that the only things affected where the CO monitor and the high water bilge alarm. Thanks again.
Karl

 

[BB marine]

Something sounds very odd here. If the engine or the charger is on, the ARC should sence ether charge voltage and close

( ACR's do not sense charge they close when a battery is at 13 Volts for 90 seconds or 13.6 for 30 seconds and the battery connected on the ACR's parallel terminal have a voltage above 9.5 volts)

. Both sources should be able to close the ARC.

(The engine alternator has almost 3 times the output going to the engine battery) so it will maintain a higher voltage, and may stay at 13V or higher when linked to a 2 battery bank 100% discharged. Parallel engine to house bank may close the ACR. The ACR's will come in play in this case. )

Battery charger is 20 amps charging 3 battery banks and one bank that has two batteries that are 100% discharged. The charger probably will have a hard time maintaining the fully charged battery at or above 13V to close the ACR if paralleled) ACR's are irrelevant in this case. The ACR's are only needed for isolation.


Now if the battery is just weak but good. In time it will charge up, the voltage will rise and the arc will close. If the voltage on the other side of the ARC is 10V or less (roughly) than the parallel switch must be used so the charger can see that battery and bring it up. This is one reason that switch was installed.

(This is correct turning the Parallel switch on position will excite the charger to start charging the battery if the batteries are discharged 100%. It may require this parallel link for more than a few minutes. )

Now I might be missing something in your case, but this is how it should work. What I am really driving at is, the ACR could care less where the charge voltage is coming from.

The ACR's do care that voltage is maintained. Voltage 13V to close the ACR's. As long as the charge output is great enough to maintain the voltage to satisfy the ACR's requirements you are correct. In this case a 20 amp charger charging a engine battery, thruster battery and a 100% discharged 2 battery bank its hard to make an a case that ACR's are even part of the equation . The ACR's are only needed for isolation.

When on shore power the engine is not the source of charge. The battery charger is. This means that there is a possibility that the ACR are not closing because the charger output is not raising the batteries voltage above 13V.

This statement was referring to the difference between the battery charger output and engine alternator charge output. 20 amp output charging three battery banks. 50 amp alternator charging three battery banks. The house bank contained 2 batteries 100% discharged. The engine charging would have a better chance raising the voltage above 13V and closing the ACR's ?

I just found it odd that the only things affected where the CO monitor and the high water bilge alarm. Thanks again.
Karl

[/quote]

The house batteries power the 24/7 fuse panel. I assume that nothing else has power on the house bank and the house battery bank is fully discharged.

 

[iggy]

On "( ACR's do not sense charge they close when a battery is at 13 Volts for 90 seconds or 13.6 for 30 seconds and the battery connected on the ACR's parallel terminal have a voltage above 9.5 volts)

A ARC is a automatic charging relay. Which is the whole point, yes? If your batteries, all 3 banks are full charged the ARC will not close. Now you start your engine or turn the charger on the voltage will increase. This increase in voltage will close the ARC in order to charge the other bank of batteries. Now its up to the charger, or the ALT to put out more amps or not to maintain the batteries.

 

[Capt’nKarl]

Morning update. I left the parallel switch ON all night, shore power connected and the battery charger on and working. The house switch was also in the ON position. This morning both house batteries read 13.26 volts. The starter battery also reads 13 volts. Both ACRs show solid green lights. CO alarm and High water alarm work when the switch is in parallel. No power to either when the parallel switch is returned to normal off position. I’m stumped and I really appreciate all the information that’s been sent. One more interesting finding. The 24/7 fuse box which houses the fuses for the CO monitor and bilge alarm also houses the fuses for both bilge pumps. When the house switch is on and the parallel switch is off both bilge pumps run when the helm switches are turned on which is normal. There seems to something about the CO monitor and the bilge alarm that for whatever reason are not receiving power unless the parallel switch is on. Anyone else have any ideas? We’re probably going to take her out to start the engine to see if that helps.
Thanks again,
Karl

 

[ixlr8]

When the house switch is on and the parallel switch is off both bilge pumps run when the helm switches are turned on which is normal.
Karl

I believe the helm switches for the bilge pumps get their power from a different source than the 24/7 panel. At least they do in my boat.

 

[BB marine]

The manual switches at the dash are powered by the house batteries controlled by the house battery switch while in on position. The 24/7 fuse panel is wired to the house battery switch hot side of switch along with the parallel switch and main house battery terminal coming from the battery. If the 24/7 panel had power before all the time without parallel switch on then I would suspect a bad connection at the the switch. With the parallel switch off check voltage at the 24/7 fuse block. Then check voltage with the parallel on. voltage should read in both cases. If no voltage is recorded with switch off I would suspect a bad connection at the switch Corrosion or loose. Look at your owners manual page 25 and 27 to see the wiring configuration and panel 24/7. Using that it will be easy to troubleshoot the issue. Good luck.

 

[nboyer]

Hello Karl. As others have mentioned, the bilge pumps and CO detector are wired to the 24/7 fuse box in the 1/4 berth. The positive lead of the 24/7 box is suppose to go to the house batteries and I believe it is via a connection on the hot side of the house battery switch. I would follow the cable from the 24/7 fuse box and see where it goes. Cheers. -Norm

Morning update. I left the parallel switch ON all night, shore power connected and the battery charger on and working. The house switch was also in the ON position. This morning both house batteries read 13.26 volts. The starter battery also reads 13 volts. Both ACRs show solid green lights. CO alarm and High water alarm work when the switch is in parallel. No power to either when the parallel switch is returned to normal off position. I’m stumped and I really appreciate all the information that’s been sent. One more interesting finding. The 24/7 fuse box which houses the fuses for the CO monitor and bilge alarm also houses the fuses for both bilge pumps. When the house switch is on and the parallel switch is off both bilge pumps run when the helm switches are turned on which is normal. There seems to something about the CO monitor and the bilge alarm that for whatever reason are not receiving power unless the parallel switch is on. Anyone else have any ideas? We’re probably going to take her out to start the engine to see if that helps.
Thanks again,
Karl

 

[nboyer]

Just to follow up, if the boat was stored in a boatel, most indoor storage facilities do not allow any power to be on for insurance/fire hazard reasons. A simple way to do this is to take the positive lead of the 24/7 fuse box and redirect it from the hot side of the battery switch to the switched side. This would effectively shut off the 24/7 power when the battery switch is in the OFF position. I thought the 24/7 fuse box was connected to the hot side of the house battery switch, since you would want the most available power for safety items like the CO detectors and bilges. I would call the factory to confirm which switch and where the positive lead of the 24/7 fuse box should be connected. Cheers. -Norm

Hello Karl. As others have mentioned, the bilge pumps and CO detector are wired to the 24/7 fuse box in the 1/4 berth. The positive lead of the 24/7 box is suppose to go to the house batteries and I believe it is via a connection on the hot side of the house battery switch. I would follow the cable from the 24/7 fuse box and see where it goes. Cheers. -Norm

Morning update. I left the parallel switch ON all night, shore power connected and the battery charger on and working. The house switch was also in the ON position. This morning both house batteries read 13.26 volts. The starter battery also reads 13 volts. Both ACRs show solid green lights. CO alarm and High water alarm work when the switch is in parallel. No power to either when the parallel switch is returned to normal off position. I’m stumped and I really appreciate all the information that’s been sent. One more interesting finding. The 24/7 fuse box which houses the fuses for the CO monitor and bilge alarm also houses the fuses for both bilge pumps. When the house switch is on and the parallel switch is off both bilge pumps run when the helm switches are turned on which is normal. There seems to something about the CO monitor and the bilge alarm that for whatever reason are not receiving power unless the parallel switch is on. Anyone else have any ideas? We’re probably going to take her out to start the engine to see if that helps.
Thanks again,
Karl