new 27

[dennis]

We are doing a sea trial on our new 27 in December in Seattle. Any suggestions from other tug owners who have done this process? We are from New Jersey and are planning to leave the boat out there for a may cruise before shipping it east. Also buying a Ford 150 with big 8 etc. Any one using the 150 currently?

 

[sportner]

Congratulations on your new boat.

I don't have any experience with the Ford F150 but I am guessing it will be a little light for towing the R27. Loaded for cruising our R27 weighs in at 10,200# including the 2 axle aluminum trailer. A 3 axle galvanized trailer will increase that a bit. I think you will have to go with the F250 to be safe and legal. But the large V-8 should work.

 

[Spirit of Gratitude]

Russ is right. The F150 is not the truck you want. The F250 would be much better. If you never want to worry then get a 3/4 ton diesel. You will be very happy with how it will perform. If you plan on towing a lot then I would really look into a diesel truck. They live for the load! The more you load it up the happier it is.

Stuart... Spirit of Gratitude R-29

 

[tuggertoy]

Dennis,

Here is the link to the Ford web page on the F-150 http://www.fordvehicles.com/assets/pdf/ ... 0sep09.pdf

If you order an F-150 with the best combination of options to achieve the highest towing capacity you will only achieve a maximum rating of 11,300 lbs. Having towed various trailers from horse trailers to campers and now boats for many years now, I can tell you that you will extremely under capacity with the F-150. One of the things that people often overlook when thinking about towing capacity and combined vehicle weight ratings is the fact that you will have passengers in the truck and stuff that will be riding with you, both in the truck and the boat. All of this adds up to extra weight that eats into any cushion you may think you have in towing capacity. Even when all of this stuff is accounted for a good rule of thumb for a margin of safety is to not exceed 80% of the tow vehicles towing capacity which in the F-150 would put you at about 9040 lbs. (11,300 X 80% = 9040). Even if you are willing to tow at 100% of capacity I can guarantee that you will ad enough extra stuff (people and cargo) to exceed the maximum ratings for this vehicle.

If you look a the info on the F-250 http://www.fordvehicles.com/trucks/supe ... ns/towing/
You will see that a properly equipped F-250 with a highly recommend diesel engine achieves a rating of 16,500 lbs. which at 80% = 13200 lbs. which literally gives you a ton (2000 lbs.) of additional capacity and still within your safety margin.

As both Stuart and sportner have both already mentioned, I think you need to scrap the idea of the F-150 as you will definitely exceed it's capacity, and order yourself an F-250. You will be safer and so will everyone else that you share the road with.

Eric

 

[dennis]

Thank you everyone. We really appreciate your opinions. We will strongly consider now moving to the 250.

 

[knotflying]

I don't think a 150 is going to cut the mustard if you are going to do any type of towing. I just placed an order for an R-27 and I will be towing it with a 3500 Chevy diesel. You could get by with the 2500. From someone who has done a good amount of towing, my advice is more is better than less! As far as a sea trial goes, just run it through the paces and see if you can spend a few days on it to make sure you get familiar with everything. Ours is being delivered in December, but we won't be taking delivery till April. Hopefully we can get a Northeast cruise together.
GOOD LUCK and HAVE FUN!

 

[RProffer]

I recommend either the Ford 250 or 350 also. It will really make the difference when going up hills and mountains. You should also get 4 wheel drive. Some boat ramps can get slippery and you won't be able to make it with out 4 wheel drive. People who do a lot of heavy hauling on the horse circuit currently prefer the Chevy/GMC 3500 Duramax. My sister hauls a 6-horse horse trailer all over the USA and says she has never had to slow down on the mountains and never overheated with her Chevy 3500 Duramax.

I don't know what your boating experience is. Reading all the forums here on Tugnuts and the Ranger forums on c-brats.com will give you a good understanding about the Ranger boats. I recommend downloading and reading the manuals for the Yanmar engine and the Garmin system you will be getting. Develop a list of all the questions you will have. Learning about the break-in period of your motor will be important. As you go through the forums and pick up little hints and tips, copy and paste those hints/tips into a document for later review.

During the sea trial, go through all the systems on the boat and make sure they work. Make sure all the fixtures are tight. Learn how to check the engine oil, marine gear oil, coolant, etc. before starting your engine. Learn where all the things are that you will be accessing for scheduled maintenance (e.g. oil filter, fuel filters, impellers, etc.). Learn the location of the thru hulls. And go through your list of questions. In a clear area, practice slow turns to learn where the pivot point of your boat is. Practice backing up and docking. Learn how the boat handles at various speeds. Take a digital movie camera with you and record everything. It will help you "remember" things later on. Just in case the Coast Guard should decide to inspect you, take a plastic tie with you to seal the Y-valve for the macerator , and make sure you have all the required safety gear.

I am sure there are other thing, just keep a list to be prepared.

 

[bluebayou]

Dennis,
I don't think "strongly consider" is enough of a commitment on your part. If you read the posts from those who actually haul the larger Ranger tugs, it's unanimous. They say, "Do NOT attempt to tow an R-27 with an F-150." I add my voice to that swelling chorus.
Having put 25,000 miles on my Ford F-350 while towing an R-25 all over the West, I can say that there were moments on the road when I blessed every single ounce of Brute Strength the F-350 had, and was glad I listened to the fleet manager for a construction company, in San Francisco, when he made me swear to get no less than an F-350.
As far as I could surmise, the only diferrence between an F-250 and F-350 is the leaf springs on the rear axle. In other words, the engine (diesel) and transmission are the same, the cab is the same, they just beef up the capacity to haul even heavier loads than the F-250 in the suspension, which, after all, whips your boat and trailer around the curves. I believe this applies to the 2500 vs 3500 comparisons in GM and Dodge as well, but I could be wrong there.
Check on the price difference between an F-350 and F-250, you'll see it's slim to none.
Finally, check on the Rated Towing Capacity of the towing frame itself, that is bolted onto the truck frame. I found out that my F-350, sitting on a Ford dealer's lot, had a factory towing frame included which, upon closer inspection after my purchase, I found was only rated for 7500 lbs. This, on a truck rated for 13,000 lbs towing !!! I paid for an after-market frame rated at 13,000 lbs before I ever towed my boat.
Yes, the diesel engine adds about $ 5000 to the price over a gas V-8, but again, the uphill towing torque of a diesel simply blows away a gas engine, even if you forget the better fuel economy diffrences.
When you're on the road, your whole R-27 investment is at risk if your towing vehicle fails in the passing lane, or can't control a potential jackknife situation because the frame and towing apparatus is not strong enough. Better buy a brute pickup, and drive along feeling safe and secure, not scared..........Charles

 

[knotflying]

Just to chime in again, Charles is absolutely right with all of his statements. I purchased the Chevy 3500 over the 2500 because of the added weight capacity at a marginal cost. Also if you want a 2500 with a short bed you have to get the crew cab and this adds $$. With the 3500 you can go extended cab, but you have to get a long bed and I also got the backup camera which is great when you want to hitch up. Yes, boats and trucks are all about compromise. I went with the 3500, diesel duramax, allison transmission extended cab and the long bed after doing reseach on Ford, Chevy and Dodge. The long bed will give you a longer wheel base as well, which I feel also makes towing easier. This rig will be 22 feet long and 80 inches high so measure your garage if you are thinking of putting it in there. If you ever read the kids book, "If you give a mouse a cookie" you will feel like you are the main character in the new book, "If you want to buy a boat......"

 

[commander bill]

I have both a F150 (300 CI) and F250 (7.3 powerstroke). Both have manual transmissions, standard cabs and 2WD. I would never tow my R25 with the F150 & I would not be affaid to tow it anywhere withthe F250. After having trailer brakes fail while towing on separate occasions with both trucks (non-boat trailer) I can testify that the F250 is the truck to be in if it occurs. The load I was pulling on the F250 was over double the weight & the truck was able to safely stop the trailer better than the F150. That said 95% of the time on normal daily trips I use my F150 which is why my F250 will last forever.

 

[Captain Starbucks]

Hi Folks,

I'm a potential future tug owner and have been lurking here for a while. I've been studying up on some of the towing rules and regulations.

I realize this is an older post but I have a useful bit of info that might help someone else in this situation.

If the max weight of the boat being towed exceeds the legal towing capacity of the tow vehicle and you have an accident...the insurance companies have every right to refuse the claim. With a new 27' and a new truck, that's a $200,000 gamble that most of us can't afford to take.

Rob

 

[Boatdreamer]

We just bought our new R27 and a new F-150 to pull it. We bought a 2012 F150 4X4 with the MAX trailer tow package and the Ecoboost V6, that gives us 11,200 towing capacity. We live in south Florida and don't plan to tow out of the state for the next five years or so. The new Ecoboost has more than enough power to pull it out of all the ramps we will be using. I use this truck as my daily driver (I'm still working) and didn't want the extra cost of buying and owning the diesel. My point is, the F-150 will tow a R27 with no problem, if you don't fill the cab with people and equipment, and aren't towing coast to coast.

Tim
Gratitude R27

 

[mspaugy]

Towing isnt the only issue it is being able to stop the boat and truck in an emergency!

 

[knotflying]

"That gives us 11,200 towing capacity"

You are at your limit. Once you have a little fuel, a little water, a little holding tank solids and then supplies and clothes on board you will find that all in with trailer will be about 11,000 lbs. or more. I am at 11,700 with my R-27. My experience has been to have a few thousand pounds of extra capacity to feel safe and be safe. Staying in Florida on flat roads and short distances won't be too bad, but you will definitely feel the struggle on a short incline or a need to stop quickly. I would also be very careful not to push that transmission too much.
Be slow and safe.

 

[walldog]

"That gives us 11,200 towing capacity"

You are at your limit. Once you have a little fuel, a little water, a little holding tank solids and then supplies and clothes on board you will find that all in with trailer will be about 11,000 lbs. or more. I am at 11,700 with my R-27. My experience has been to have a few thousand pounds of extra capacity to feel safe and be safe. Staying in Florida on flat roads and short distances won't be too bad, but you will definitely feel the struggle on a short incline or a need to stop quickly. I would also be very careful not to push that transmission too much.
Be slow and safe.

I would not consider towing my R27 which weighs 11,240 lbs on the trailer with anything less than a 3/4 ton truck. We tow Willie's Tug with a 2011 Dodge 2500 with Cummings diesel. In theory you may be under the limit of 11,200, but in practice I doubt that those numbers are realistic. You will probably weigh more like mine and Knotflying's numbers. You should also consider the tongue weight. My neighbor insisted that his F150 was up to the task of towing a large bumper pull RV. Even with equalizer hitch, his rear of the F150 drug every bump in the road as it was very close to the ground with the tongue weight of the trailer. He has since sold both of those and now has a F350 with a fifth wheel TT.

From a post I made in Sept 2011:

We towed Willie's Tug into a Flying J yesterday and used the scales to get an accurate weight of our rig. Our gross combined vehicle weight is 19,620#. Our truck weighs 8380# by itself, giving us a net weight of 11,240# for the boat and trailer. The tongue weight of the trailer is 1260#.

"Be safe out there for your safety and the safety of the other folks on the road." said Herb with 25 years experience towing trackloaders, backhoes, and tractors with one ton trucks.

 

[JamesTXSD]

I haven't done the research for an F150, but "towing capacity" for any truck usually has a number of values: often based on what type of trailer you're towing (5th wheel, bumper pull, and even a different rating for a boat, presumably because of the V-shape). Sometimes the fine print will stipulate that a weight-compensating hitch must be used.

I don't know about Ford, but there is a HUGE difference between the half ton trucks and the 3/4 ton trucks from GM. A bit less of a difference between 3/4 ton and one ton. Even if a manufacturer says the 1/2 ton can pull a certain weight, it doesn't mean the frame, brakes, transmission, and suspension are going to hold up with continued heavy use. No doubt the engine can move the weight... heck, when we were still sailing, there were stories of a guy towing a Corsair F-27 with a Saab 900!! :shock:

Last year, we stopped in a rest area and saw a couple towing a 3-axle Airstream trailer with a brand new Dodge Charger... I asked the guy if that vehicle was up to the task, and he said, "It can handle it - it's a Hemi!" :lol: He sounded like that commercial with the two rednecks. 😎 Later, I looked up the Charger for towing capacity - it said: "Not recommended for towing." That Airstream was over 8,000 pounds. A Hemi ain't enough.

I still believe in the right tool for the job. I would not care to tow that weight with any 1/2 ton vehicle. Just another unsolicited internet opinion... and I haven't stayed in a Holiday Inn Express in a long time... but I do have several decades of towing experience, including coast to coast to coast to coast towing with our current CD-25.

Florida may be mostly flat, but they do have their share of ... um... interesting drivers. Be sure the truck can handle the quick stops, swerves, and passing situations that will come up.

Best wishes,
Jim B.

 

[Dale777]

Just as Knotflying noted his R27 with trailer weighed 11,000# and Walldog noted his R27 with trailer weighed 11,240#, my R27 with a very light-weight aluminum trailer weighs in that same range at 10,550#. This is with no fresh water, 1/2 tank of diesel, and no waste water and many of our goodies that are normally in the boat loaded into the truck, instead. If I had any fresh water, waste water or more diesel in the R27, my weight would be very close to those for Knotflying and Walldog.

Therefore, I would highly recommend at least a 3/4 ton pickup with at least a 13,000# hitch spec, thus providing a bit of a safety margin. I would never want to be too close to the actual truck with hitch rating.

Note: Be careful in reading the hitch ratings that appear to be more than 13,000# for a 3/4 ton Chevy pickup or 14,000# for a 3/4 ton Ford pickup, since those higher weight ratings apply only to a fifth wheel arrangement. One ton pickups have slightly higher conventional tow ratings versus the 3/4 ton.

See these links for Ford and Chevy towing specs:

Ford: http://www.ford.com/trucks/superduty/sp ... ns/towing/
Chevy: http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/Ch ... _Guide.pdf

Click on this photo of my weighings and calculations for details:

 

[mspaugy]

excellent data sheet, I know I wont have any trouble with my truck (F-350) but I am going to make sure the hitch is up to the task.

 

[knotflying]

Great data Dale! I have the Silverado 3500 HD with the Diesel and Allison tranny. I forget that the boat is behind me. I have to use cruise control on the highway to make sure I don't go faster than I want to. Having done quite a bit of trailering with marginal vehicles, this is the best towing I have experienced. Two blown engines and a transmission replacement are expensive ways to learn, but experience is the best teacher.

Mike Rizzo

 

[Dale777]

Great data Dale! I have the Silverado 3500 HD with the Diesel and Allison tranny. I forget that the boat is behind me. I have to use cruise control on the highway to make sure I don't go faster than I want to. Having done quite a bit of trailering with marginal vehicles, this is the best towing I have experienced. Two blown engines and a transmission replacement are expensive ways to learn, but experience is the best teacher.

Mike Rizzo

Mike,

With my Silverado 2500HD Diesel 4x4, I too almost forget the boat/trailer is behind me, UNTIL I look in the mirror and wonder what is that monster directly behind me. Also, at a rest stop when I'm walking back to the truck, I'm always amazed at how big that boat/trailer looks compared to the truck.

These newer Silverado 2500HD/3500HD diesels are amazing trucks in their towing capability. I've heard the same about the newer Ford F250/350 diesels. Then, of course, many people say the same about the Ram 2500HD/3500HD diesels. However, for anything less than these trucks, towing an R27 for more than a short distance seems dicey.