New Battery Problem

[Gypsy]

I am reposting this in hopes that knowledgeable people will see it and respond. Last night I drove the boat to a restaurant. After dinner there wasn't enough power to start the engine. What is also a mystery, is that there wasn't enough power to run the thrusters. I switched on the crossover and everything worked. As soon as the engine started, I switched off the crossover. When we got back to our dock, the thrusters worked fine. The volt meter showed that the batteries were charged. We had recently done a load test on the batteries and they were all good. I'm thinking that there must be a bad connection somewhere, but why would there be the same problem at the same time with two separate batteries? Sure could use some ideas.

 

[fishheadbarandgrill]

Make sure the battery terminals are tight.

 

[BB marine]

When load testing the batteries how long was the charger removed from
The batteries before load testing? I like to charge the batteries to a full charge then remove the charger from the batteries. Turn all battery switches off remove all ground terminals from the batteries. Wait a couple of hours before load testing. After no charge has been received from a charger to battery banks for two + hours load test. It sounds to me you may have a weak battery. If all connections have been inspected clean and tight. I doubt they will loosen up. You indicated that you inspected and tightened all connections and the engine started fine. Now your back to batteries dead again.

 

[Hydraulicjump]

This sure sounds like batteries that have lost their capacity. All the advice you got from BB Marine is dead right on. Do as he says.

But you might want to get one of those new-ish battery capacity testers. I say this because my batteries would appear all charged up (voltage above 12.8, holding charge), but would collapse pretty fast. I got one of those capacity testers and it showed my batteries were shot—below 40% capacity-even though they held a charge just fine.

The one I got comes from Ancel, but there are others. And you need to take the cables off of the batteries and let them rest to do a proper test. But I was surprised at how precise it was. I changed out the batteries and have had no problems for the past two years. That won’t last, of course, but it was worth solving the short-term problem.

Good luck.

Jeff

 

[bill46]

We had problems with studs on new battery starting D-4. Had to get post adaptors and use lead posts for engine. House and thrusters fine.

 

[Gypsy]

The batteries I have came are factory installed Universal, made in China. They are about three years old. To eliminate the batteries as causing the problem, I am replacing all four batteries with Duracell Marine AGM batteries that have 110AH and 800 CCA. I'll let you know how things go.

 

[CruisingElvinRay]

If you don’t take care of your batteries, you will kill the Duracell’s, too. Batteries don’t usually die on their own, they are murdered.


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[Gypsy]

There isn't much to take care of with the AGM batteries. They are sealed and don't require additional water. They can be positioned in any way except upside down. Just make sure connections are clean and tight. Basically, worry free.

 

[CruisingElvinRay]

If you run them to 0% charge, you still kill them.


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[CruisingElvinRay]

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[BB marine]

There isn't much to take care of with the AGM batteries. They are sealed and don't require additional water. They can be positioned in any way except upside down. Just make sure connections are clean and tight. Basically, worry free.

In your case this is true to the point of your issues. You have experienced problems with your engine and thruster batteries which generally do not get a slow full discharge. The engine battery and thruster batteries are used as a quick high amp discharge and then recharged. Many times in this case the engine battery fails early because it was under sized for the application. In your case a Volvo D4 requires a minimum of 900 CCA or 1100 MCCA. If you install a properly rated battery for this application AGM maintenance is limited to cleaning the connections keeping the battery tray dry, and confirming properer charging cycles from the battery charger. The same would hold true for the truster batteries too.

The case of the house bank may be a little more complicated. The batteries are discharged at a slower rate and for longer periods of time. With AGM's you want to make sure that they do not go below 50% discharge and when at 50 % discharge the batteries are recharged soon after they are at 50% discharge. Normally I like to start charging the house bank when I see 12.4V and do not let them go below 12.2.

If you run them to 0% charge, you still kill them.


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Actually 50% or less if done frequently will kill them. I have by mistake had my batteries at 11 V which is 100% discharge a few times. I thought for sure they would be toast! That was 3 years ago the first time and it has happened a few more times after that. Did it hurt them ? Maybe! Do they still function ok ? They did when I sold the boat and had the Northstar battery sales representative at the marina load test them. He said tested as good as new ! 3.5 year old batteries. I do agree maintaining the batteries at 50% or lower is not a good practice.

Note:The Duracell batteries are made by East Penn. An American battery manufacture. I have used Deka (same as Duracell) for years (maintenance free) and always received good results. I was just battery shopping. I am looking at a boat that has 8D batteries for engines and house applications. I'm not fond of lifting 8D batteries out of tight spaces so I was looking for options. I'm also not completely sold on the AGM batteries. Not because they are not good. I don't know that the addition cost and extra couple of years of use is worth it. I just shopped Duracell heavy duty maintenance free lead acid HP31P 1000 CCA 1230 MCCA Group 31 for cranking batteries enough CCA to replace the 8D batteries at the cost of 176.99 and the maintenance free Duracell HP31DP 100 AH for 124.99. This is less than half the cost of the AGM batteries and the engine batteries have a high CCA capacity. If I get three years out of them I will be happy. I will be doubling the batteries used to replace the 8Ds with Group 31 but reducing weight and making it easier to handle with smaller battery cases.

 

[CruisingElvinRay]

Brian, I agree. I should've been clearer. If you run them to zero on a frequent basis, you will kill them.

 

[Gypsy]

Brian,
Thanks for the info. The four AGM batteries I just bought are 800 CCA and 1000 MCCA. They are a little less than your recommendation - but, I believe, equivalent to the factory installed batteries. As for the cost of the batteries, Sams Club has a very good price $179.99. The only problem is finding stores that have them. I found three at different Sams Cubs, but was forced the buy the fourth at Batteries Plus for $249.99. Sams Club's warranty is 18 months. Batteries Plus said there's is four years. I asked Batteries Plus how would they know if I were to bring in a bad battery for replacement that I got from Sams Club. They couldn't answer that.

 

[Larry1030]

My experience with batteries purchased at Sam’s is they warranty any battery within the warranty period that won’t hold a charge. At Batteries Plus my experience is they refuse warranty on any battery regardless of age if it doesn’t register 12 volts. Accordingly the warranty only applies to batteries that will fully charge but that test as “Bad” on their testing unit. Be careful assuming the warranty from Batteries Plus is superior to the one at Sam’s. Just my experience.

 

[Gypsy]

I want to thank everyone who took the time to comment on my original post. The information has been informative. I think I might now be able to pass "battery 101."
Today, with help, I installed four new Duracell AGM Marine batteries. Concerned that I may not have needed new batteries, I took the old Universal batteries to Batteries Plus to get tested. All four batteries showed 13 volt charge. However, when they did the load test, three of the batteries only showed 40% and the other showed 60%. Batteries Plus maintains that if the reading is lower than 80%, the battery needs to be replaced. I felt good that the batteries were bad. I also asked them about their warranty. They said that if you bring in a battery and they can't get it to charge to at least 10 volts, they consider that you were negligent, and didn't take care of the battery, and it would not be covered under their warranty. If the battery takes a charge and fails under load, that would be covered.
I'm not sure why my batteries failed. I bought the boat last winter with only 77 hours on it. However, the boat was in dry storage for several months, so I'm sure the batteries were allowed to run completely down. I will not let that happen.

 

[NewMoon]

There isn't much to take care of with the AGM batteries. They are sealed and don't require additional water. They can be positioned in any way except upside down. Just make sure connections are clean and tight. Basically, worry free.

One more thing to take care of AGM's: they need to be fully recharged after being run down. If they are often only partially recharged, their lifetime will be shortened significantly. I've had as much as 11 years service from East Penn Deka g31 AGM's on my 26-footer, but it was underway 4-6 hours or more most days, or tied to the dock with shore power, so they got fully recharged regularly.

Had such good experience with the Deka AGM's on my smaller boat that I replaced all batts on my Nordic Tug with them. Going strong so far, five years of cruising 4-5 months each summer (except only 2 in 2020).