Newbie seeks salty dog(s) for advice/ridicule

[Gruti]

Hi tuggers,

My wife Ruth and I are currently landlocked in Seattle. We are wavering all over the place. Sail, motor, trailerable, moored etc.

I love the look and idea of a full displacement "slow ride". My fantasies include cruising, but my pocketbook and other factors are pointing towards a well maintained and well used used r-21 or similar (slackwater?). We do have "driveway mooreage". And a Honda pilot so trailer trawler is looking appealing.

As we gain experience and confidence we may venture out further, but at the early stages I suspect we are "cocktail cruisers".

I have never actually been on an r-21. I know there are a few for sale in the wider area. (and one in Seattle that is newer and out of my budget) but before I drive over to Lewiston, or even cashmere I thought I would get some advice from this esteemed group.

Can you overnight on a "classic" r-21? I realize this would essentially be camping.

Am I crazy to be considering this as a first boat?

Can I really trailer it behind my Honda pilot?

Anyone willing to give me and my wife a quick tour of their 21? (bottle of your favorite poison (within reason if you are a scotch snob) in it for you.)

Other thoughts, musings, ribbing etc. more than welcome.

 

[sportner]

I would say you could more than overnight on an R21. Many have a stove, fridge, sink, V-berth, and toilet. Some people have taken them up the inside passage to Alaska as well. Another popular option would be the 22' C-Dory, its an economical boat that has more speed if you need it, used boats can be found on the C-Brat web site. Both can be towed by your Honda Pilot and would make excellent first boats

 

[rt11002003]

I loved my 2009 R21EC! Three personal objections: I hate heads under the V-berth, or any other place where one has to assemble/disassemble things to get at it. I'm 5' 11", 195 lbs; everytime I entered or left the cabin I bumped my head (slow learner). The helm seat restricts entry/exit.

It is a good camping unit; much better than a tent, or a tent camper. Or, even a RV; one can take it for trips on the water!

Would love to have another one. It's my favorite Ranger tug.

gene

 

[tlkenyon]

The R21 Classic is a great boat. We have had ours for two seasons now, and is our first non-sail boat. The displacement speed might not be fast enough to some, be we find it relaxing. The "Classic" accommodations are pretty sparse, and you are right that an overnight is more like a campout. One of us sleeps in the v-berth, and one of us (me) sleeps on the cushion on the engine box. The engine box on the Classic is just long enough to be comfortable if a cooler is placed on the aft end. We have a mosquito net that we rig from the boom/canopy that encloses most of the cockpit. Cooking and such are campout style, as well as refrigeration (a cooler) and a porta-pottie.

The EC has more for accommodation, but I think there are some sacrifices made for that larger cabin. The EC goes a little faster, but no so that you would notice.

I have towed my Classic behind my Dodge Charger (hemi AWD) with no problem, but I would not attempt a launch/retrieve with a car, mostly because of the need to back the vehicle into the water on most ramps. Our normal haul vehicle is a Dodge Quad Pickup (4.7L) which does just fine.

It is an excellent first boat. It took me a while to get used to the relatively slower helm response (relative to a keelboat), but with a lot of practice, I can get into just about any berth or alongside just about any dock, of course, with due respect to conditions. If this is truly your very first boat, at least you will not have to unlearn a lot of bad habits picked up from steerable stern-drives.

Being on an inland lake, we get a lot of attention and have become minor celebrities on our area. Expect a lot of questions and comments from bystanders and other boaters.

The Classic is usually a little less expensive than the EC, but there is less to go wrong.

The Classic is very seaworthy, and even though we are on inland waters, we do have lakes with a 30-mile fetch, so we get some very large, square waves.

You are gonna love it.

 

[Gruti]

Thanks for all the advice!

We stopped by the factory yesterday and picked up a new 29. (Not really, but wow!)

What nice people! I was honest with them and told them what I was up to, they spent a few minutes chatting with us anyway and let us aboard a beautiful 21-EC under construction.

We then spent a good half hour gazing at one in the parking lot and chatting with the customer service folks.

Here are my impressions for those of you following along at home:

Wow, wow, wow. I'll take two!

I am still feeling a little squeamish about towing one of these behind my pilot for any real distance. I think it is just barely adequate. (4500# rating.) Probably fine for the 1/10th of a mile to our typical boat launch, but not very awe inspiring for much else. (Mountain passes etc.)

I also was a bit shocked by the total length of the rig. It paced off at close to 30 feet all told (tongue to swim step.) I may need to re-evaluate my driveway moorage.

The clearance between the road and the rear tow bar is about one squirrel. Maybe a crow. Anyone have issues backing up on steepish hills? (I got a C in geometry in high school...)

I would still love to see a classic and maybe even get out on the water. Anyone in Seattle or surounds willing to do a little marketing for Ranger? I can make a donation to your favorite charity, buy you dinner, walk your dog etc. I promise I am not a pirate! :roll:

 

[rt11002003]

My guess is you'd be pushing things with 4500 lb. towing capacity.

I towed with a Toyota LandCruiser with 6500 lb. capacity. Towed with both a galvanized factory trailer and an aluminum trailer, the only difference I could detect was about 10% better gas mileage with the aluminum trailer. In both cases I hardly noticed they were back there.

gene

 

[Gregg]

Not our first boat, but for the foreseeable future, our last. It's a marvellous boat that we never grow tired of. In fact, year over year it becomes significantly more enjoyable.
It sounds great. It looks great. It's comfortable. Easy to lauch and retrieve. And maintenance is straightforward and fairly minimal. Great overnight boat for 1 or 2. My advice for extended lounging in the cockpit is to find a good, comfortable and (thin) folding chair that will fit between the engine compartment and the hull makes playing cards, meals, chatting, etc. more comfortable for more people.
And of course, there's the economy. The boat really has few equals. Half a gallon per hour is typical at cruise. For us here in Northern Ontario on an inland waters, 2 full tanks a season is what we usually expect to see, (about 50+hours).

In my opinion, I think the Honda pilot might strain on any long trailer trip.

Gregg

 

[rt11002003]

I averaged about 0.60 gpkm, for approx 150 hours.

The engine is simple and easy to work on. Some of the other systems are in tight spaces, might be difficult to access.

Still think they're hard to beat: boat, dealer (Wefings) and manufacturer!

gene

 

[Gruti]

Thanks everyone. I am in Washington state (Seattle) so a Florida dealer is a bit inconvenient. I think that I have determined that my tow vehicle / inexperience is a bit inadequate for any serious trips, and my driveway mooreage is way too small. I am not out of the game, just recalibrating based on the new data.

There are 2 21 classics for sale within a day's drive so I will probably be getting up my gumption to drive out and look at one or both.

Any other boats I should be considering? I think the c-dory is a bit too loud and "speed-boaty" for my taste. I like the full displacement, slow, quiet and inexpensive to run aspects of the ranger.

Greg

 

[RProffer]

Everyone has their own needs/requirements for a boat. You should define what you want the boat to do then look for one that meets your definition. Several years ago, I saw a magazine article that praised the R21 classic. The R21 looked interesting but it was too sparse for my needs at the time. It did not have a refer, stove, sink, or even a chair to sit in. I did not want to stand the whole time I was cruising. Then the R21-EC came out and it had all my desires and then some: marine head, bow thruster, complete Garmin package, etc. It has most of the features of a much larger boat, but in a compact package that is affordable to operate with its 10 mpg fuel consumption. It is a multifunction boat. I can go trolling on the Chesapeake Bay, or with its 24" draft go fishing on the rivers. I can spend a few nights at a beautiful anchorage or a weekend at a rendezvous. I just spent the last week camping at a state park with 5 grand kids and we went boating/fishing most every day. My wife and I, and our 5 grand kids (ages 7-11) had a ball cruising, and fishing, and of course we had to have swim calls. The point I am trying to make is the features of the EC make the boat more usable - not just more things to take care of. I normally tow the boat with my GMC pickup, but last week I towed the 5th wheel camper instead. We towed the boat with our Jeep Grand Cherokee without a problem. I think your Honda Pilot can tow it if you have 4WD and a class III hitch. A 2WD Pilot has a 2000 lb towing limit. A 4WD Pilot has a 4500 lb towing limit. Besides, I feel 4WD is a requirement for pulling a boat up a slippery boat ramp. Good luck in your search for your perfect boat.

 

[sandj]

We have just completed a week in the Thousand Islands with our Ranger 21 ec. The boat performed well. We have made a few modifications to house 3 adults. We have a custom captain's seat that does not take up as much room. Because no one wanted to sit on the stove, we removed the seat there, then used the footrest and the cushion from the back for the original captain's chair to make the second seat. Simply fastened the seat to the footrest with c brackets. We then removed the cushion from over the stove/sink and we use it on a plastic storage box that sits between the engine cover and the back seat. Makes a nice footstool. For our 3rd crew we create a berth in the cockpit. We have a plywood board that usually sits on the engine cover cushion. we slide the board aft to sit on th back seat and engine cover, slide the cushion on top, take the footstool cushion and put it on the engine cover at the foot of the bed. Flaps with a couple of dome fasteners snap to the engine cover and Voila! a six foot + berth. For extra storage I constructed bags using outdoor fabric and battons in sleeves on the upper edge. One sits behind the stove/sink and stores dishes. One sits on the face of the back seat and stores charts. One on either side of the cockpit looped by line around the stanchions store whatever.With a cooler strapped to the swim platform we can stow enough gear and food for a week. I tow with a subaru forester and have no trouble launching and recovering. Pick your ramp carefully. We were also towing a dingy and two kayaks on the water. On the road we throw the dingy and the kayaks in the cockpit.
Sandj

 

[bbrh842]

I am impressed, for sure!

 

[abcandjrc]

sandj,

That would be great stuff to photograph and post in an album on the site.

It is painless to open an album and not too tricky to add the pictures. My only problem is that I keep forgetting to limit the size of the pictures, the site scolds me, and then I have to shrink them. That is simple, too, but so is my pre-posting memory apparently.

 

[baz]

Hi tuggers,

My wife Ruth and I are currently landlocked in Seattle. We are wavering all over the place. Sail, motor, trailerable, moored etc.

...snip...

My advice is for you to make absolutely sure your 1st mate agrees with whatever you want to go for -- Sail or Motor.

For me, I was also very very keen on the R-21 at first and it was the first Ranger Tug I had seen while being trailered by Jeff Messmer who happened to live close by my house. I happened to see the R-21 on a trailer just down the road at our local gas station where Jeff had pulled in to fuel up the tow vehicle. I just loved the look and quality of the R-21 sitting on the trailer. I spoke with Jeff and got the factory addresses (Kent and Monroe) and said I would be over to see the various boats they made.

My budget at the time was for the R-21, thinking that the R-25 would simply be out of reach.

With my wife at my side we went to the Kent factory to view the R-21. Of course the R-25s were also there so after viewing the R-21 and then nervously looking at the more expensive R-25 my wife made it quite clear that if we were to purchase a Ranger Tug it had to be the R-25. The R-25 has so much more to offer and we were not interested in trailering any boat since we didn't own a big SUV or truck and any rate, there's so much to see/visit here in and around the Puget Sound for years to come for us. Yes, the budget was the issue but we figured it all out in the end and bought the 2010 model R-25. I'm so happy we did as it's perfect for us and my wife never has second thoughts about going out in/on it. We've crossed the Georgia Strait several times now and in calm and rough seas the R-25 has handled well -- I know we would have been quite nervous in the R-21 in the rough seas encountered.

If your budget is really tight consider a used R-25 or a used R-27 -- at least look at them alongside the R-21. Not knowing your boating skill level, I would say you will find the R-25 to be a boat you can feel safer and more comfortable in because of its size and larger useful accommodations. The R-21 will bounce about a lot in rough weather which can arise quickly in the Puget Sound areas. Your wife needs to be comfortable with this even though the boat can take it -- you and 1st mate might not.

If you decide on the R-21 make sure you get a sea trial in calm and rough seas to ensure you both feel comfortable in it. Don't just take a ride out on Lake Washington or Lake Union -- go out through the locks or simply launch out from Shilshole and experience the open waters of Puget Sound.

Again, as others have posted, review your boating requirements and what area in the Puget Sound you might want to cruise to make sure the Tug you decide is the right one.

Again, we/I was all for the R-21 at first but ended up with the R-25 and we've never regretted our decision even with the higher initial cost. I know for sure, had we bought the R-21 we would either have sold it or traded up to the R-25 within a year. The R-25 is a perfect fit for two and provides certain amenities the R-21 simply does not offer.

We keep our R-25 at Port of Edmonds and you are welcomed to take a ride with us if you like and we can choose a calm day and/or a windy day as you please -- Just PM me if you want to.

No matter, good luck with your decision -- either boat is a sizable investment so take your time getting it right.