OB or Diesel

[The Bolton Wanderer]

There has probably been much discussion over this subject so if someone knows where to point me I'd appreciate it. My question is for those of you out there that live in the PNW,
or have experience boating in colder climates. We live in Idaho and are considering a move farther north in Idaho or to the Puget sound. If we purchase an FM boat it will likely be a 10ft beam and we will for sure want to tow it to take in parts of the loop and other destinations. All other things aside, our question revolves around should we go for an OB boat or IB.
On the Cutwaters of course we have a choice, but once we hit 10ft beam on the R29 its Diesel like it or not..
The thing is, I see as, doing some cruising in the winter as it can be beautiful and quiet in the Sound during Fall and Winter so we are weighing up what is best for us..
Upsides on the OB, I see as no winterizing between trips out of the water (Pretty huge factor) available speed if necessary, more space in the lazarette.
Downsides are larger berth fees, longer unit to tow, looking at those two big lumps when on the hook, 2 or even 3 different fuels on board, no motor produced hot water.

Upsides on the IB, I see as, likely longer engine life if ran at lower speeds (Which would be our choice) "Slightly" better economy at hull speed, shorter slip/berth/towing, better view off the cockpit and easier tender options, hot water from the motor, more affordable and available used options for purchase.
Downsides are less storage, harder to maintain,... and what? What am I missing and what are your thoughts/experiences?

Cheers, The Bolton Wanderer.

 

[S. Todd]

At the marinas on the Great Lakes diesel fuel is about a $1.00 or more per gallon less expensive than gasoline. Diesel does not explode if you have a fuel leak and a spark, so some will argue it is safer. When I last talked to someone with a Cutwater with outboards that was similar in size to our R29S their fuel consumption figures were about double ours at comparable speeds. He could run faster when he wanted to, but it did not improve his mileage. If fuel cost is not a concern for you, then this may not be relevant to your decision.

 

[scross]

Other benefits of IB:
Center of gravity is lower and further forward.
No worries about swim step “pods” filling with water.
Less obstruction for fishing from rear of cockpit
Ease of putting a dinghy on the back of the swim step without complicated contraptions of gymnastics

 

[Bmxer10]

Reply to keep up with this thread. I am in the process of looking at getting a 25 or 27 soon and debated back and forth between the two engines. For me the diesel is the clear winner when it comes to overall cost (fuel mileage, dock space, repairs). The real question is what speed do you really want to travel at. My wife and I are not in a rush 90% of the time, so I am pretty confident we will get a diesel. At the price point I am looking at used I think the outboards are still out of my price range.

I know looks arent everything, but the outboard ranger looks terrible and a total afterthought. It doesnt fit the look of an old tug.

 

[JeffreyAC77]

HAving run gas engines nearly my whole life, now having an R31 (diesel), I would never go back to gasoline. I do not miss the speed (easily cruise at 13-15 knots) and I certainly don't miss dealing with gasoline (have an electric outboard on our dinghy). We are in the PNW and not loopers. I do the basic maintenance on the D4-300, which saves a lot of $$$. Engine life is also a big consideration having the diesel). Hope this helps.

 

[JeffreyAC77]

Having run gas engines nearly my whole life, now having an R31 (diesel), I would never go back to gasoline. I do not miss the speed (easily cruise at 13-15 knots) and I certainly don't miss dealing with gasoline (have an electric outboard on our dinghy). We are in the PNW and not loopers. I do the basic maintenance on the D4-300, which saves a lot of $$$. Engine life is also a big consideration having the diesel. Hope this helps.

 

[Rocky Lou]

There are quite a number of threads on this topic, but, it really comes down to your usage. I have zero interest in a FM diesel since I run far offshore and need to cruise at ~30 knots and would never go with only one engine. I would consider other boats that offer twin diesels with more power.

I also performed my own service on the Yamaha 300s and I'm not mechanical at all. I watched a few videos and, while a bit messy, found the service to be easy. Remembering how to operate a grease gun and hit all the lube spots was one of my only challenges.

My performance and economy increased by ~30% when I installed PowerTech 5 Blade/Extension props. Regarding engine life, I run 100-150 hours per year, and am going to get about 15-20 years. I'm sure I'll want a new boat by then. (The average life of a 300hp outboard engine is about 1,500 to 2,000 hours, though modern 4-stroke models can last 3,000 to 4,000 hours or more with diligent care).

 

[Haifisch]

I've had both and prefer diesel especially here in the PNW: 1) Love having unlimited use of the Webasto furnace 2) Safer than gasoline 3) R31 cruises at 15 kts. With all of the logs and stuff in the water in this part of the country, there are not many occasions I'd want to go faster. 4) Hot water after an hour or so of running. 5) Almost all engine maintenance can occur without pulling the boat from the water. 6) Outboards kind of mess up the look and vibe of the boat.

The boat stays in the water and thus my winterization is minimal. Water lines aft of the cabin are closed and drained and I have a bilge heater for those rare occasions that it gets really cold.

 

[ridesn]

Over time I've grown more and more fond of the cabin heater on my C26 diesel. Those times when its a chilly fall morning, everything feels damp and the windscreen interior is half covered in condensation, after about 15 minutes with that heater on the whole cabin is warm and dry again.

 

[Bob&Jilly]

There has probably been much discussion over this subject so if someone knows where to point me I'd appreciate it. My question is for those of you out there that live in the PNW,
or have experience boating in colder climates. We live in Idaho and are considering a move farther north in Idaho or to the Puget sound. If we purchase an FM boat it will likely be a 10ft beam and we will for sure want to tow it to take in parts of the loop and other destinations. All other things aside, our question revolves around should we go for an OB boat or IB.
On the Cutwaters of course we have a choice, but once we hit 10ft beam on the R29 its Diesel like it or not..
The thing is, I see as, doing some cruising in the winter as it can be beautiful and quiet in the Sound during Fall and Winter so we are weighing up what is best for us..
Upsides on the OB, I see as no winterizing between trips out of the water (Pretty huge factor) available speed if necessary, more space in the lazarette.
Downsides are larger berth fees, longer unit to tow, looking at those two big lumps when on the hook, 2 or even 3 different fuels on board, no motor produced hot water.

Upsides on the IB, I see as, likely longer engine life if ran at lower speeds (Which would be our choice) "Slightly" better economy at hull speed, shorter slip/berth/towing, better view off the cockpit and easier tender options, hot water from the motor, more affordable and available used options for purchase.
Downsides are less storage, harder to maintain,... and what? What am I missing and what are your thoughts/experiences?

Cheers, The Bolton Wanderer.

Interesting thread, I have had both . I enjoyed my IB and now enjoy my 300 HP OB. I get great mileage at slow speeds and enjoy the option of getting home quickly should the weather change. Working on the IB was easier while finding parts and service on the OB is not a problem . I do like that winterization is much easier on the OB.

 

[The Bolton Wanderer]

At the marinas on the Great Lakes diesel fuel is about a $1.00 or more per gallon less expensive than gasoline. Diesel does not explode if you have a fuel leak and a spark, so some will argue it is safer. When I last talked to someone with a Cutwater with outboards that was similar in size to our R29S their fuel consumption figures were about double ours at comparable speeds. He could run faster when he wanted to, but it did not improve his mileage. If fuel cost is not a concern for you, then this may not be relevant to your decision.

I tend to agree. fuel is definitely a concern. Cheers.

 

[The Bolton Wanderer]

Other benefits of IB:
Center of gravity is lower and further forward.
No worries about swim step “pods” filling with water.
Less obstruction for fishing from rear of cockpit
Ease of putting a dinghy on the back of the swim step without complicated contraptions of gymnastics

All great points and I'd considered the C of G point myself. has to be better having that heavy diesel sitting there on the hook.

 

[The Bolton Wanderer]

Reply to keep up with this thread. I am in the process of looking at getting a 25 or 27 soon and debated back and forth between the two engines. For me the diesel is the clear winner when it comes to overall cost (fuel mileage, dock space, repairs). The real question is what speed do you really want to travel at. My wife and I are not in a rush 90% of the time, so I am pretty confident we will get a diesel. At the price point I am looking at used I think the outboards are still out of my price range.

I know looks arent everything, but the outboard ranger looks terrible and a total afterthought. It doesnt fit the look of an old tug.

Yea more good points. If we had the spare Doll Hairs and had our choice of boats, I'd be buying a displacement trawler, semi at best, so speed is not our bag. I've spent 30 years sailing so I'm used to plodding along.. often in the wrong direction! LOL

 

[The Bolton Wanderer]

Having run gas engines nearly my whole life, now having an R31 (diesel), I would never go back to gasoline. I do not miss the speed (easily cruise at 13-15 knots) and I certainly don't miss dealing with gasoline (have an electric outboard on our dinghy). We are in the PNW and not loopers. I do the basic maintenance on the D4-300, which saves a lot of $$$. Engine life is also a big consideration having the diesel. Hope this helps.

Cheers. The 31 is a great choice.

 

[The Bolton Wanderer]

There are quite a number of threads on this topic, but, it really comes down to your usage. I have zero interest in a FM diesel since I run far offshore and need to cruise at ~30 knots and would never go with only one engine. I would consider other boats that offer twin diesels with more power.

I also performed my own service on the Yamaha 300s and I'm not mechanical at all. I watched a few videos and, while a bit messy, found the service to be easy. Remembering how to operate a grease gun and hit all the lube spots was one of my only challenges.

My performance and economy increased by ~30% when I installed PowerTech 5 Blade/Extension props. Regarding engine life, I run 100-150 hours per year, and am going to get about 15-20 years. I'm sure I'll want a new boat by then. (The average life of a 300hp outboard engine is about 1,500 to 2,000 hours, though modern 4-stroke models can last 3,000 to 4,000 hours or more with diligent care).

I do see your point here, but surely what you are doing off shore has to be a factor. if there is no time agenda and distance per gallon is paramount, (Passage making) then the gasser wouldn't be the choice right? Again, horses for courses. I see the draw of the OB's. Cheers.

 

[Rocky Lou]

I do see your point here, but surely what you are doing off shore has to be a factor. if there is no time agenda and distance per gallon is paramount, (Passage making) then the gasser wouldn't be the choice right? Again, horses for courses. I see the draw of the OB's. Cheers.

Yeah, it's pretty simple for me. I have to run 30-50 miles offshore for Tuna and then make moves, when a friend finds the fish, in a BIG hurry and I might need to outrun weather. I've also lost an engine when I was far offshore and made decent time running on one...a kicker won't cut it for big distances. Lots of things can happen, like getting rope wrapped around a prop that you don't want to try to fix in big swells. But, I'm cruising little and fishing lots...sounds like you don't need the speed, but maybe the second engine if you'll also be a long way out.

 

[venajeff]

I like outboards for many reasons, ease of maintenance (our boat it kept on a trailer), speed, fuel economy, low fumes, boat maneuverability. I would say the only thing I really miss about the IB diesel is the open swim platform, and the 'all the time' hot water.
Also if our last diesel boat had ever needed a complete engine replacement it would have been a major ordeal.

 

[The Bolton Wanderer]

Yeah, it's pretty simple for me. I have to run 30-50 miles offshore for Tuna and then make moves, when a friend finds the fish, in a BIG hurry and I might need to outrun weather. I've also lost an engine when I was far offshore and made decent time running on one...a kicker won't cut it for big distances. Lots of things can happen, like getting rope wrapped around a prop that you don't want to try to fix in big swells. But, I'm cruising little and fishing lots...sounds like you don't need the speed, but maybe the second engine if you'll also be a long way out.

I hear ya. Frankly I'm drawn to the look of the C302 and 32 but the wife really likes the Rangers so if we want a 10ft beam (as we do) it may be moot.. Still, I need to get her on a C32 and an R29. We trialed a 302 when they first came out but she can't remember it and neither of us have been on an R29. Thanks for the help.

 

[sfladgard]

diesel has some advantages to be sure, but greater longevity is no longer one of them. A mechanic on patrol boats for the navy tells me that they pull the merc 225's off at 9000 hours whether they need to or not. I asked if he meant 900 hours and he stood by his statement.

That said, Yamaha claims 8-9,000 hour life spans as well. At 100 hours per year none of us will be alive when the thing finally craps out.

Even the best diesel made, the venerable Cummins 6bt5.9 can be abused enough to die at less than 2000 hours.

After owning several inboards I really enjoy performing maintenance on dry ground while standing on my back legs.

 

[Submariner]

I don't worry about wearing out my Yamaha F300. There are many examples of folks getting 7k-9k engine hours on them and they still run fine. At 200 hours a year, every year, which is what we do, we'll be lucky hit 4,000 engine hours after 20 years.

The maintenance on a Yamaha is easier than a diesel inboard. Ranger Tug has a great video on their YouTube channel of changing out the water impeller on a R27 classic. Compare that to our video of me changing the impeller on the tailgate of my truck, just as an example.

Also, it's ok to run to the Yamaha F300 at wide open throttle, all the time, without hurting it. I've done that from Friday Harbor to Everett (home). Was home in under 2 hours.