Plumbing leak

[Irish Mist]

Need some direction here. On my R29 the pressure pump comes on every 10 min or so for a 1/2 second. I have checked every accessable fitting and can not see any water dripping anywhere. I removed the Heater box at the helm and checked the shower taps as well. I have no water trickling into the bilge My worry is there is a connection leaking somewhere and water is pooling. If water gets ahead of the rear bulkhead where would it go? I checked under bed and at the sump is dry and dusty so no water there. Any help would be much appreciated

 

[Shared Dream II]

You are correct in assuming that you have a leak somewhere. The pump will not cycle if everything is sealed. With respect to the question of where the water goes if it accumulates in the bow, there is a 3/4 inch PVC pipe that connects the bow to the bilge. At the bilge, the opening is under the Yanmar engine and can be viewed either by placing your head upside down at the prop shaft and looking toward the bow, or by using a mirror to accomplish the same view.
One approach is to find the trail of water that is entering the bilge. Once you have identified this, you can generally isolate the location the water is originating. Your 29 is probably not eqqipped with an external water connection, but if it is check it by opening the top left cupboard by the stove. You should be able to look see and feel the connections there.
There are also a series of connections that feed the shower and the bathroom sink. They are accessible from the inspection plate at the foot of the 1/4 berth.
Also ensure that the outside faucet connections are tight. You can feel them by reaching into the cupboard door below the outside sink.
The first step however is to trace the water backwards from where it enters the bilge.

 

[abcandjrc]

GpM,

I believe your boat is significantly newer and is certainly more complicated than ours, so consider the differences when considering my response.

I certainly would check for leaks in any case, but our experience on our R21-EC, vintage 2007 is similar to yours. Just a couple taps of the pump every once in a while. I have searched diligently for leaks and can say for certain that there are none.

I don't know if your boat has an accumulator or not for the pressure system. If so, it is possible it is water-bound. If not, it is possible that just the normal pressure drops in the system, due to valves in the pump that are not aerospace quality, is enough that the pump detects it and runs a couple cycles to build it back up. In fact, in our case I am certain it is slight leaks of pressure via the valves since the period between cycles has gone from hours to 1/4 hours in the time we have owned the boat.

We have found that with ours the simplest thing to do is to turn off the pump manually except when needed. But, of course, our switch is right at hand for all our water usage (i.e. a single sink 4 feet away). If you find no leaks, I would suggest installing an accumulator in the system. Not only should it stop intermittant short pressure adjustments (or at least greatly extend the period between cycles) but will also make water delivery much smoother at all times.

 

[Irish Mist]

Thanks for the tips hadn't thought of the hose inlet but that is dry like the rest No visible drips or anything in the bilge that would indicate a leak I do shut pump of when not in use. Is just fraustrating that I can't find the leak I would think with the frequency it comes on there would be a trail.. I'm sure some day I will stumble on it
Thanks again

 

[Todd]

IF the check valve in the pump is leaking the water, and associated pressure loss, could be returning to the tank and no external leak exists.

 

[Irish Mist]

Didn't know there was a check valve Thanks might be it

 

[bbrh842]

I echo what Todd said.

 

[knotflying]

Just a thought, but what if you put some red dye in the tank. It may be easier to see the leak.

 

[Irish Mist]

Thought of the dye but would bypass the tank and just feed directly into pump. I need to see if there is a check valve as this could be the issue if ther is one
Thanks

 

[abcandjrc]

IF the check valve in the pump is leaking the water, and associated pressure loss, could be returning to the tank and no external leak exists.

That's what I said in the third post. The symptoms match ours exactly and I know we have no leaks since ours is so simple to check.

One advantage of an accumulator is that the pressure will generally take longer to drop and cycle the pump since there is an air head in the accumulator which maintains pressure above the cut-in pressure even if the pump is bleeding some slight amount back into itself. The downside is that the pump will run longer once it does kick in, but at much longer periods between cycles.

Caution: if the accumulator is not pressurized properly when installed, and the air head not maintained properly as time goes on, it won't make one bit of difference. Like most stuff, maintenance is a good idea. That said, we lived on our sailboat for 5 years and only had to adjust the charge one time.

 

[Irish Mist]

Thanks
I like the idea of the tank ..will source one out

 

[captaincook]

Grandpa Mark,

I have an R29 and had the same problem. After talking to Jeff at the Factory, he suggested I check to see if the leak was around the hose connection on the starboard side of the hull. I was able to open the cabinet door below the sink and see the water fill pipe that connects to the through hull hose connection, and sure enough it was leaking. It seems this hose is preasurized and the presure pushes water up the hose. Since this is a one way valve, it stops there, unless the connection is loose. I was also able to reach my arm back in there and feal for the leak, as well. If that is the problem, you can fix it by removing the 4 screws on the outside of the fitting, and pulling the fitting and pipe out through the hole. I saw there was no teflon tape or pipe dope on the threads of that fitting. I used pipe dope recommended for water pipes, and that stopped the leak. Ypu also want to be cautious when putting it back in. Once I tightened the fitting and went to fasten the assembly to the hull, I noticed the 4 screw holws didn't line up. The tendency is to turn the assembly to make it line up and that will un-screw the threads, which I think is what happened at the factory. As long as you don't un-screw it to far, you will be ok.

 

[Irish Mist]

Well turns out there was a leak at the rear sink tap. Just had to tighten the clamp all good now Not sure how I missed it the first time but no more pump in the middle of the night. this was a good exercise though as I picked up lots of tips from everyone. Thank you