Plywood Issues

EllisTug

Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2021
Messages
9
Fluid Motion Model
C-288 C
Hull Identification Number
FMLT2910J213
Vessel Name
Puffin
Hi again!

Just another topic of concern. So on our "new to us" 2013 Ranger R29, there is plywood installed as a kind of flooring in both lockers (port - batteries side vs starboard - generator side). Our particular boat's plywood is starting to rot and I don't want to go down the "why did they do this" design decision tree ... but rather want to discuss how others have dealt with this issue?

Did you remove the plywood?
How was it secured and did that prevent you or make it more difficult for you to remove?
What did you replace it with?
How did you deal with the all the equipment already installed - temporary removal? Did you relocate or revise where certain pieces of equipment now reside?

Really appreciate any feedback or suggestions/processes.
 
Unfortunately this may be a problem for Ranger Tugs of this vintage We had the same problem and recommend others check to see if the have the same issue. Unfortunately our boat had a lot of gear in the storage compartments and the problem was not found during the survey. Tip to anyone buying this vintage Tug: be sure these compartments are empty as possible and that your surveyor thoroughly sounds and inspects the floorboards.

First to answer your questions directly:

Did you remove the plywood? Yes, and used the old plywood as a template for the new plywood. The plywood is beveled at he out board edges and will require a bit of skill to recut the new piece to match the old.

How was it secured and did that prevent you or make it more difficult for you to remove? The outboard edges are not secured with screws. The inboard and lateral edges were secured with same size screws generally in the same location as the original floorboards.

What did you replace it with? The original plywood was 3/4 inch. Did not appear to be marine grade. Replace with 1 inch marine grade plywood, generally available at lumber stores. Original floorboard was not painted or sealed on the bottom side. I painted the new floorboards with three coats of bilge paint. I could not find marine grade plywood at Lowes or Home Depot but also did not ask. Caution, I was lucky in that I could remove the genset sound shield with the extra thickness of floorboard. Take this into consideration if you use a thicker than original floorboard.

How did you deal with the all the equipment already installed - temporary removal? Did you relocate or revise where certain pieces of equipment now reside? Removal of the old plywood was a total PIA because you had to remove the genset and hydraulic pump for steering and hatch lift on the starboard side and the water heater and battery bank on the port side. We did not relocate any of the original installed stuff to save on rewiring, and re plumbing .

It appears that design flaws and leaky cockpit storage compartment latches are the causes.

First the leaky latches: The hatch latches are a low point in the hatch. They have a recess that accumulates water which leaks into the storage compartments which seeps into a long bilge well below the plywood. I have removed and resealed the latches. That helped a bit but still get leakage. My next step is to replace the seal on each latch.

Next the design flaw: Over time water seeps through the hatch latches, accumulates in the bilge well under the plywood because the weep holes that should drain the water into the main bilge are higher than the water accumulation. Over time this accumulation of water under the floorboard causes the rot. When you remove your floorboards you will see the collected water can be several inches deep before it can escape through the weep hole. PPD. I did not find an easy way to fix this design flaw. I tried a wick through the weep hole to see if that would work. It did not. I finally landed on drilling a three inch hole in the plywood in two locations on each side above where the deepest water collects so that you could inspect and vacuum the collected water out. On the port side one of these inspection holes is under the battery bank and requires periodic removal of the battery to inspect and drain. Not the best solution and if anyone has found a way to fix or mitigate the poorly designed weep holes I would be more than grateful.

John & Della
Sunny Tug
2012 Ranger 29S
Berthed Naval Station Pensacola
 
I have a 2010 R29 and was aware of the plywood and have painted it numerous times with a oil base paint (Tremclad). To date no signs of rot. I am surprised about the findings of a well issue under the plywood. I have two other well areas under my rear thruster motor (port side) and the same on the Starboard side. Both cases the drain hole is two inches too high. As for the plywood if I ever have to remove it I would go to Starboard plastic. A little pricey but will never rot. I thought about pouring resin into the well areas but space is required if you have to remove the thruster, wiggle room. I am considering installing two small bilge pumps, one to keep the well dry but ultimately back bilge pumps.

When I die my boat will be perfect!

Cheers, Leon
 
I did not have this issue on my R-27, but others have. Those that have replaced it used starboard. It can be a bit pliable, depending on thickness, but additional support will fix that. If you do not want to use starboard I would use marine plywood and fiberglass the bottom and edges before installing. Yes this is a lot of work, but you do not want to do it again so do the best you can to make it not happen again.
 
Thanks John/Della and Leon - I had a feeling this would be a huge PIA, and am basically in denial as to getting it done yet - although I know it's coming. I am especially not looking forward to the Generator/Steering side.

*Sigh* A lot of good info though ... thanks again!

Brian & Jenny
 
Brian and Jenny, you are most welcome.

Good luck with your project.

Thought Scottfree's idea of pouring resin in the well below the floorboards to be a good one so that the wells would not retain water.
 
This is an issue that will eventually cause issues to many Ranger and Cutwaters that have open cockpits without a Bimini. The problem is caused by design. The wood is not treated and is only coated with a gelcoat on the top side. The compartments are not well ventilated so this keeps moisture in the compartments and when the wood gets wet it stays wet and will eventually start to rot. The deck lids leak after about a year or two and many of the deck latches are not sealed properly so they leak when water gets on the deck.If the limber holes are not kept clean when water does leak into the compartments it can't drain out and the water sits there and the bare wood acts like a sponge and soaks the water into the plywood laminates and then rots. This build process was used in the 80's and 90's and was replaced with composite material early 2000's by most boat manufactures. The composition is more expensive but will last forever. The plywood is strong and if properly treated it will last a long time too. The issue is no ventilation and improperly treated wood and the results is 5 to 10 year old boats with rotted wood in areas that wood should not be.

The fix. Remove all the equipment and remove all the rotted wood. When the compartments are all opened up clean all the limber holes to insure a good drainage system for the future. Add some vents to the compartments so that there is good air circulation. Replace all deck hatch weather stripping. Remove all deck latches and reseal them with a good marine sealant and replace the o-rings that seal the latch hardware. Next is the wood replacement. Composite is the way to go but it is expensive and much heavier than a wood product. If wood is used and sealed properly it will last forever. The key is to seal and water proof the wood. I have used epoxy for years to seal plywood and have had great success. The key is to make sure it is saturated into the wood and its grains. A few coats of it will make the wood water proof as long as there are no penetrations in the wood that are not sealed. ( drill a hole to mount something make sure you use a sealant on the screws to seal the hole. A good product that I have used is Total boat sealing epoxy. I thin it with alcohol and apply 2 to three coats on the ply-wood. If thinned it really soaks into the wood and makes for a well water proofed product. After treating the wood apply paint and you will never have the issue again. It is to bad the boat manufactures don't use this. If wood is used in a boat it needs to be sealed. Honestly in todays world a synthetic materials there is no reason to use wood other than the cost
 
jpdewitt":2t2wcxnm said:
Brian and Jenny, you are most welcome.

Good luck with your project.

Thought Scottfree's idea of pouring resin in the well below the floorboards to be a good one so that the wells would not retain water.


How about injecting foam?
 
I recently sealed my deck latches. They did not come sealed from the factory. I also tighten the latch bolt which has a nylon washer. Now after it rains, water puddles over the latches, which is a good thing.
 
When I bought my (used boat) I repainted some of the plywood and put down a layer of dri-deck in all the lockers (except battery) to help them dry out a bit better. Also the anchor locker. A also recently replaced all the hatch gaskets. So far, I think I'm ok but haven't done an inspection lately. Ugh.
 
An additional comment on this issue based on experience with our 2017 R25 SC. I don’t know how applicable it is to our models but it could be worth checking.

Soon after we bought the boat I noticed that there was always water in the area of the depth transducer. This is located at the aft end of the starboard locker and below the level of the plywood platform. It was fresh water which was good. First thought was the latches and the seal around the hatches. Our latches were well sealed from the factory and the seals around the rims seemed ok. Since the boat is kept in a boathouse this wasn’t rain water accumulation. I finally tracked it to venting of the hot water tank. The pressure relief valve was working and releasing water. Thinking it was defective I contacted the tank manufacturer who sent me a replacement valve rated 7 bar instead of 5. The problem continued. Those excellent guys at PBH told me to go back to 5 bar for safety reasons, turn off the water pressure before getting underway and open the galley sink to hot. That did solve the problem which is pretty obvious when I think back to my thermodynamics classes. Event I remember PV/T is a constant so as the water got hot it needed to vent once the pressure limit was reached. Increasing pressure in the water system was a bad idea! The issue may be more common in a diesel boat as the temperature of the hot water is a lot higher when engine heated.

I couldn’t always remember to do the bit with the sink so I installed a simple plastic pipe from the relief valve to a Tupperware style box in the locker. The pipe enters the side through one hole and there’s another in the top to avoid pressure build up and for emptying. The venting is small for each trip but it’s amazing how, like the drips from the shaft, it accumulates. The limber hole that is supposed to drain the area to the bilge is too high to take out all the water leaving some to just slosh around.

There’s a photo of the setup in the modifications folder of our album.
 
To those of you on this thread that did remove your locker floor, did you find any boat mechanicals, stringers, or electric wiring underneath? I'm interested in installing access / ventilation ports in my flooring but don't want to break anything below by drilling site unseen. Thanks!
 
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