Pocket Yacht

[Air-cooled]

I stopped by the Pocket Yacht dealership in Maryland yesterday to look at models and compare. They had a Cutwater 24 and a Ranger 23 side by side and I looked at both. They have identical interiors and and identical base price. The C24 had the Yamaha 300 and the R23 had the Yamaha 200. I think they need to lower the price of the R23, you get a lot more boat from the Cutwater. We also looked at the C26 and C28, both beautiful boats. All of these boats looked smaller on the inside in real life than in the photos from the website. They all looked to be nicely constructed and finished. John, the salesman was very nice and informative.

 

[jld]

Respectfully, I think you might be mistaken about the prices. The R23 with the 200 hp outboard has a new MSRP of $100,00 while the C24 with the 300 hp has a MSRP of $110,00 (the base C24 is $100,000 with the standard 240 hp gas inboard/outboard). R24 sales must be good as I believe the introductory price was $96,000 for the base boat.

Looking on-line at the Pocket Yacht inventory, the R23 is a 2017 model and the C24 is a 2016 model. Maybe they have special pricing on the 2016 model?

I met the Pocket Yacht staff at this year's Baltimore Boat Show and would agree they seem to be good folks. I too, loved the layout of the C26/C28, and if money were no object, this is the boat I would buy.

Jim

 

[Air-cooled]

It is true that the Cutwater website shows the Yamaha 300 as a $10,000 option, but the dealers I have contacted pretty much give it to you as a $5,000 option. Agree, if money were no option, I'd take the C28, but the boat I have ordered is the C24 largely due to price and the Yamaha motor. And I still think you're getting a lot more boat in the C24 than the R23 for essentially the same money.

 

[JamesTXSD]

All things being equal - and they rarely are - there are tug people and there are cruiser people. It is a good thing to talk about why you bought a particular boat. Not so much to imply (or state outright) that the model you prefer is a better purchase than the model someone else bought (or is considering). Especially on a site that promotes both brands from the same manufacturer.

I probably have a few years on you, some some life experience here: never diss someone about their choice of...
* a mate
* a boat
* the pet of their choice (there are dog people and cat people)
* the brand of truck you choose to tow your boat choice

That said, my hot wife, our cute cat, and I would both pick a Ranger Tug over a Cutwater to be towed with nothing but a GMC Sierra. :mrgreen:

 

[Scuffy]

Jim,
I'm with you. Except we are dog people and like Chevy's. I don't think I would make a good Cutnut.

 

[Air-cooled]

Not dissing any person or their choice at all. Just talking price point of two similar boats.

 

[trailertrawlerkismet]

Air-Cooled:

Once you get to know these guys and gals (can I say that?) you'll see that there's a lot of give and take that goes on. Sometimes fun, sometimes informative and educational and sometimes silly but in almost all cases whats shared is for the good of the group. Whatever boat you decide on, if its right for you then thats all that matters....being on the water is whats more important, in my opinion.

Jim F

 

[mcphersn]

All things being equal - and they rarely are - there are tug people and there are cruiser people. It is a good thing to talk about why you bought a particular boat. Not so much to imply (or state outright) that the model you prefer is a better purchase than the model someone else bought (or is considering). Especially on a site that promotes both brands from the same manufacturer.

I probably have a few years on you, some some life experience here: never diss someone about their choice of...
* a mate
* a boat
* the pet of their choice (there are dog people and cat people)
* the brand of truck you choose to tow your boat choice

That said, my hot wife, our cute cat, and I would both pick a Ranger Tug over a Cutwater to be towed with nothing but a GMC Sierra. :mrgreen:

Totally with you. I have money down on a 23', which I would choose over the Cutwater even without the 10K+ price difference. There's something about a Tug, even an outboard Tug...

 

[JamesTXSD]

Yep - Mr. Favors knows where I'm coming from. The best "deal" is getting the boat that is right for you and your needs. And, having some fun... 'cause if it ain't fun, all that money you spent is really gonna tick you off! 😉

Ranger/Cutwater does a fine job with all the boats/models they build, and judging by the happy boat owners, they have them priced right. Each buyer gets to "vote" with their dollars.

 

[jld]

It's great to have choices! 😀

I think Fluid Motion has done a great job on both the R23 and the C24. Both boats offer many of the same amenities, yet with the hull design and the engine options, hit different parts of the market. I see the R23 as a leisurely cruiser with the ability to go fast when required. I see the C24 as a cruiser for the go-faster folks. Neither is a better option, they are just different boats for different folks.

Personally, I love the lines on the R23. I like the 200 hp outboard, instead of the 300 hp outboard and hanging the outboard on a bracket instead of a transom. While the C24 is a very good boat, my choice would be the R23 with the outboard. Interestingly though, if I were to get the larger boat, my choice would be the C26/C28 instead of the R25/R27.

So I guess there are Tugnuts, Cutnuts, and then there is me! :lol:

Jim

p.s. both dogs and Rams rule! 😉

 

[Air-cooled]

Educate me: why would one prefer a 200hp Yamaha to a 300hp Yamaha?

 

[mcphersn]

Educate me: why would one prefer a 200hp Yamaha to a 300hp Yamaha?

Octane requirements, weight, cost,max steering angle, noise, maintenance, insurance, stress on hull, fuel consumption, for starters.

 

[JamesTXSD]

Different hull characteristics (as in the Rangers vs the Cutwaters) require different horsepower for the best performance. Don't just look at the pretty cabin - the hulls are different by design.

 

[Air-cooled]

Educate me: why would one prefer a 200hp Yamaha to a 300hp Yamaha?

Octane requirements, weight, cost,max steering angle, noise, maintenance, insurance, stress on hull, fuel consumption, for starters.

Octane: 89 for both

Steering angle: 32 for both

Cost: built into price of boat for Cutwater and Ranger Tug

Insurance: same

Noise: same

Maintenance: two more cylinders, possibly more cost to maintain, but no more hassle

Weight: 562 vs. 487...not too much difference

Power: big difference

 

[mcphersn]

OK. My apologies to the group for contributing to the problem here.

 

[jld]

Mcphersn, you have nothing to apologize for as many of your thoughts are correct! 😉

Manufacturers take great care in matching the correct engine size to the boat they have manufactured. Thus, boats will typically have a maximum and recommended motor size. Many manufacturers will power a boat at the what they believe is the optimum engine, and will then give the customer the option to move up or down in engine size. Fluid Motion, with the Rangers and Tugs, powers their boats at the optimum size, with a few options. They have determined that the 200hp Yamaha is the right size for the R23 and the 300 hp Yamaha is the right size for the C24.

There are differences is prices and full consumption between a 200 and 300 hp engine. While I know that the R23 and C24 are a different hull than a Steiger Craft 23 walk around fishing boat (another boat I really like), if you look at the Yamaha Performance Bulletins, they list the following for the Steiger Craft 23 Deep V Miami:

- Yamaha F300UCA ($26,500 msrp) @3500 RPM, 28 mph, 9.4 gph, 2.98 mpg
- Yamaha F200XB ($18,500 msrp) @4000 RPM, 27 mpg, 7.7 gph, 3.51 mpg

This is why, all things being equal, I would prefer the smaller engine.

Jim

 

[mcphersn]

Mcphersn, you have nothing to apologize for as many of your thoughts are correct! 😉

Manufacturers take great care in matching the correct engine size to the boat they have manufactured. Thus, boats will typically have a maximum and recommended motor size. Many manufacturers will power a boat at the what they believe is the optimum engine, and will then give the customer the option to move up or down in engine size. Fluid Motion, with the Rangers and Tugs, powers their boats at the optimum size, with a few options. They have determined that the 200hp Yamaha is the right size for the R23 and the 300 hp Yamaha is the right size for the C24.

There are differences is prices and full consumption between a 200 and 300 hp engine. While I know that the R23 and C24 are a different hull than a Steiger Craft 23 walk around fishing boat (another boat I really like), if you look at the Yamaha Performance Bulletins, they list the following for the Steiger Craft 23 Deep V Miami:

- Yamaha F300UCA ($26,500 msrp) @3500 RPM, 28 mph, 9.4 gph, 2.98 mpg
- Yamaha F200XB ($18,500 msrp) @4000 RPM, 27 mpg, 7.7 gph, 3.51 mpg


This is why, all things being equal, I would prefer the smaller engine.

Jim

Thanks Jim. I confess that I was really apologizing for "debating" with somebody who was claiming that $10,000 and 75 pounds were insignificant. Not much payoff to the group for filling up the site with that sort of stuff. Your posts, on the other hand, are really useful.

Facts, dogs, and Rams rule.

 

[Air-cooled]

My points were that the R23 and C24 have identical interiors and very similar pricing. On the other hand, the C24 may be configured with a 300 Yamaha while the Ranger tug gets only a 200. In effect, the Cutwater gives you more for your money than the tug. Many of the reasons cited for preferring a 200 to a 300 were not valid. I'm not debating whether you should or should not be in love with the tug design.

 

[JamesTXSD]

Allow me to give you the most valid reason: different hull shapes. Yes, the interiors are very similar. Yes, the exterior styles are different, but appropriate to each boat's designed usage. BUT the real difference for the hp necessary to move the boat at its most efficient design is the hull design (the shape of the boat BELOW the waterline). Put a 200 hp motor on a Cutwater, and you would likely be disappointed in the performance. Put a 300 hp motor on the Ranger, and you will see very little difference in performance, just more squat in the water. The key here is to get the RIGHT motor/hp for the hull design. The bad value would be putting too much or too little motor on either VERY DIFFERENT hull.

Human nature being what it is, we all like to think we made "the best buy." You could put that 300 hp motor on a nice, small houseboat - it would be less money than a Cutwater, but it would still be the wrong motor for that hull shape.

Each of those boats being discussed is a quality vessel from a first rate manufacturer. The value isn't in more or less horsepower, it is in the proper design.

Here's a good read about hull shapes/design/power/usage...

http://www.powerandmotoryacht.com/desig ... ull-design

And, in the words of the philosopher Forrest Gump: "And that's all I got to say about that." 😉

 

[Air-cooled]

I understand that more power is not necessarily a good thing for a displacement hull such as the tug.