PSS shaft seals

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Boatman

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Joined
Nov 2, 2009
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Fluid Motion Model
C-24 C (Sterndrive)
Hull Identification Number
RFB02664D593
Vessel Name
TUG-ALONG
I would like to get rid of the wet bilge on our 93 R21 and am considering on installing a pss shaft seal system. Has this ever been done on the 21's and what are your thoughts or advice regarding this idea. I have noticed that the amount of water varies quite a bit depending on the speed of the shaft, I have tried new packing and careful adjusting and can't seem to get consistant results. Your feedback would be much appreciated. Joe
 
Hi Joe,

We just bought our 2006 R-21 Classic in August. The packing is still in OK shape but I wouldn't mind going dripless either. With that in mind I found this product http://www.emarineinc.com/products/gfop ... cking.html

I haven't posted about here yet but now you have given me the opportunity. Maybe Andrew or one of our fellow Tugnutters might have an opinion. If this stuff works as promised it is a heck of a lot cheaper and easier to install than a PSS shaft seal.

Eric
 
use the "search" feature to check out previous discussions regarding "dripless shaft seals".

but to quickly summarize...From my personal experience and that of anyone I've know that had a PSS or similar product
"don't get one !". a traditional stuffing box cleaned out of the old packing and re-done with the Gore-Tex or teflon paste is much better, cheaper and more dependable than a shaft seal.
 
:roll: Boy, this subject gets interesting. it would appear that DRY bilges have some significant advantages. 1. cleaner bilge 2. shaft is not slinging salt water causing greater corrosion issues. 3. alleged teck persons claim a wet setup should drip water whether the shaft is turning or stationary. IF this is true one becomes more dependent on the electrical and pump out systems. 4. Wet systems can become clogged shutting off the water supply/lubrication, and allow overheating. SlackwaterJack, I respect your advice to stay away from PSS shaft seals, and the fact that you prefer wet systems. Have you tried a dry system and could you help me understand what your objection to them is? I would be most appreciative. Joe
 
First off I don't prefer a "wet" system, I prefer an effective shaft seal that isn't a constant source of worry. The traditional shaft seal is more than up to the task of keeping an R-21 bilge virtually dry, especially with the new packing materials now available. A fast boat with the engine turning at 5-6000RPM's and a slow turning diesel boat like the R-21 have much different needs and that is why the PSS type of "Kinda-sorta" dry system was developed.

drawbacks with old type packing in the R-21 ...
1) requires an adjustment once in a long while 2)if it drips while shaft isn't turning, the bilge pump may come on for a few seconds once a month or so (if boat is in the water and for some reason you don't want to adjust it to Not drip). 3) if the 6 ply heavy-duty almost bulletproof rubber hose attaching the box to the sterntube gets chopped several times with an axe or cut with a saw you would have a severe leak. 4) because the setup is soo forgiving of engine mis-alignment you may not know why the cutlas bearing is wearing out prematurely...but other than an annoying vibration it's no big deal.

drawbacks of a mechanical (pss type)system...
1) doesn't require adjustment other than when the carbon faces wear out, or the springs fatigue, or the bellows get stiff, or the retaining disks set screws loosen or strip, or the salt crystals that form between the mating surfaces cause it to drip. 2)if it drips while shaft isn't turning the bilge pump may come on for a few seconds once a month or so (if boat is in the water and you don't want to adjust it to Not drip) unless the drip is due to salt crystals or someone touching it and you need to run the engine in gear for a while to re-seat it. 3) if the 1 ply bellows gets old and cracks underway or is damaged by a dropped screwdriver, or a piece of fishing line finds it's way to the bilge and gets wrapped around it, you would have a severe leak . 4) because the setup is soooo UN-forgiving of engine mis-alignment you may not realize the cutlas bearing has worn out prematurely because all the water pouring into the boat has you distracted.

Pluses of the "old system",...cheap, easy to maintain, chance of catastrophic failure...almost 0. Properly adjusted and using Gor-Tex packing your bilge will remain dry when at rest and almost dry when in motion.
Pluses of a PSS type system,...Marina guy's kids can go to the "good" school, you learn to work under pressure, Properly installed your bilge may remain dry when at rest and almost dry when in motion.

disclaimer:I have had several boats over the years and experienced living with both types of shaft seals...If you want a dry bilge you need a boat with an outboard motor. Also, The R-21 cockpit drains go to the bilge and unless you never get rained on and never get splashed the bilge is going to get wet.
 
Just thought I would toss my pot into the water...

We had a PSS dripless system in place on a pre owned 37 ft sailboat we purchased in 2000.
It was my understanding the installation was about 4 years old at that time.
During our ownership ( we sold the boat 2 weeks ago to purchase an R-29) we never had a drop of water from it.
Well, actually there was 1 time. We had the yard replace the Cutless Bearing once. The tech forgot to tighten the set screws
that hold the steel disc to the rubber boot. The next time we used the boat was for a 4 day cruise. about 6 hours into the trip ( we were motoring, because when you own a sailboat, the wind is always coming from directly where you want to go),
I noticed the bilge pump discharging. I was able to quickly determine the problem, and I actually had 3 spare set screws on board. ( I used to be a Boy Scout). The problem was resolved without much fuss. Since then, about 6 years ago, it has not leaked.
From time to time I did notice the build up of a white residue around the end of the boot. At first I was concerned thinking that the rubber was somehow degrading. I contacted PSS and was told it was probably salt. Something to do with the centrifical action. When I got to the boat, I did the old taste test. It was salt. Since then I would give it a wipe (lightly) with a damp sponge once or twice a year.

Would I go though the expense of having one installed myself? Probably not. But I had no complaints, it worked as designed.
 
I guess my main point is if you've got an R-21 you will always have water in the bilge from the deck drains anyway so I wouldn't concern myself over a little water from the packing gland...
does anyone have any experience with the "play doh" no drip and/or the Goretex type of packing materials that they would like to share?
What are the stock specs for the R-21 (classic's) packing ? stern tube diameter, shaft size, packing size etc
Also what is the factory's experience with the various boats and shaft sealing.?
 
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