R-21 EC Fuel and rpm Issues

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rt11002003

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Joined
Dec 16, 2008
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Fluid Motion Model
C-24 C SE
Hull Identification Number
FMLT2113H314
Vessel Name
Loaf'N
I have 24.9 hours on the engine. After 10 hours I began to do short bursts (5 minutes) of max power every hour of operation. At first I could get 3375 rpm under load and 4000 without load.

Yanmar manual says our engine should be propped to always attain 3600 rpm under load and suggests propping to 3800 rpm so there would be room for additional load, etc. First, one needs to be sure they're reading exact engine rpm. Our tachs may not be accurate. A phototach reading of engine rpm may be necessary to determine our tachs' accuracy.

A second factor is that every vessel and every engine is a different testbed. My prop might be perfect in Mobile, AL and be off in Atlanta, GA. I don't know how much variance to expect, but once I have a baseline then I can decide whether I need to compensate if I see rpm changes in different places and under different conditions.

I haven't got that far because of other issues. At this point Andrew said he'd get in touch with Yanmar because Yanmar had told Ranger 3200 to 3600 rpm was OK. My concern was about the warranty. Yanmar can be picky about warranty, if you're interested try Google. I have not heard from Yanmar.

Andrew has told me of the effort Ranger has gone to in order to install a prop that best meets performance expectations. Everything he says makes sense. I don't care what rpm we're talking about as long the vessel performs and I don't have a warranty issue.

Back to the other issues; summer time on Lake Lanier brings out boats of all sizes and shapes. In some areas the wave action is a nightmare. I needed fuel just before the rush, so I introduced a different fuel source at that point. The engine operated as before, 3375 under load, 4000 no load. Later I needed to add fuel again, I was averaging about .6 gal per hour at that point, so I went went back to the same fuel source.

Then boat rush began and I wound up in some crazy, heavy waves. All long I was experiencing fuel/spray coming from the fuel vent. Now, (the lake is lumpy as late as 9:00 pm) fuel sloshing in the tank was forcing fuel out both the filler and the vent. Then my max rpm under load fell off to 3200, still 4000 without load. About a week later max rpm dropped to 3000, no load still 4000. I also think I'm feeling some engine surging, not enough to show on the tach.

What happened? I think my primary fuel filter is starting to clog. If so, why? The first fuel from the factory went thru many different temperature and humidity changes from Kent to here and could have been contaminated. I've gotten two fuel fills from a single source and it may be contaminated. The boat has been joustled hard enough for the fuel to erode the plastic from the tank walls. 😉

Went by the boat this morning to check and see what changing the filter would entail. Not much room to catch fuel from the filter housing, everything else seems right at hand. All I need to do is pickup some fuel to refill the filter housing, should have already had that on board.

Surging. I've had that problem on another Racor/Yanmar combination that I owned. The engine would run fine up to a specific rpm, then it would feel like the boat was slowing and the engine would stop unless I reduced the throttle quickly. Then it would run fine until I hit that rpm level again. After a couple of times I realized there was slight surging of engine rpm just before things got dramatic. Changed the filters, both primary and secondary. All that did was move the problem further up the rpm range. At that point I was selling the boat, (my wife felt we needed a larger boat) I explained the issue to the prospective buyer and changed the filters again. This time the problem moved up almost to max rpm. The fellow wasn't concerned since all was good in normal cruise range. I think he told me he used three or four filters on his nine day trip home.

Note: My present situation is the engine won't reach rated rpm, but whatever rpm is attained, it continues to operate, but may have slight surging. In the situation just described the engine would quit operating.

Aren't boats fun? 🙂

Gene
 
Charlie, I see that Gene has moved this over to a new post. To answer your question, I will select an RPM, lets say, 3200. Several minutes later the RPM will drop off 100 RPM stay there about five seconds then return to 3200. This happens at RPM's above three thousand. I failed to mention in my original post that I have run the boat without the fuel filler cap to see if there is a vent problem, no change. All lines have been checked to see if they are clear and there are no kinks or sharp bends in the fuel lines. Again this started at about 32 engine hours.

Dan
 
Hi Guys, I am sorry to see that you are having issues. I know that this will be elementary, but just want to make sure that it is covered. As you both know, it can only be fuel or air. It sounds like you have ground the fuel parts pretty hard. Is there any possibility that your problems could be air related? Sorry if I have covered old ground. Good luck w/ getting it figured out.
 
Sam,

At this point I haven't ruled out anything. I'm working with Andrew and Jeff to resolve my venting/filler issue. I'll change the primary fuel filter in the morning to see if that changes anything.

Gene
 
Changed the primary fuel filter today. Simple job, the secret is to move everything you can and then remove the filter housing from the bulkhead. That will give you room to work and drain fuel from the housing. Total job time was about an hour. With proper tools I think it may take 15 to 20 minutes the next time.

Tested after change, max rpm now at 3300, I'm still down from the initial 3375.

The filter was completely blocked about half way up and some blockage near the top. I'll take photos and at some point when I set up a galley post one.

In the next couple of days I'll post the step by step sequence for changing that primary filter, including the tools to use and take photos. Everyone should be able to do it quickly on the water; you might not be able to get help.

Gene
 
Excellent news, Gene. Now my question is what is causing the clogging in such a short time frame?
 
Gene, what was the micron size of the clogged filter? And what size did you replace it with?

Charlie
 
Sam, that's the question isn't it. The material is the asphalt present in diesel fuel. The factory used clear fuel, which I believe is the on-road, taxed fuel. Maybe the asphalt dropped out and settled on the bottom of the tank over the time from fueling at the factory until I started adding fuel months later. My first fill up was made at the same time they were refueling a huge trawler taking on hundreds of gallon. This fuel is the red, untaxed, off-road (?). At that time the season hadn't started, so I wasn't getting a lot of sloshing fuel. The next time I was the only one being refueled and the lake as getting rough and I was getting lots of fuel sloshing.

If there had been debris in the filter, I'd suspect the recent refueling. Not knowing how long it takes for the asphalt to fall out; I'd guess quite awhile. I suspect the fall out was there for awhile and the heavy fuel sloshing and addition of fuel loosened it. ????? :?

Don't you find it strange that untaxed fuel costs roughly a $1.00/gal more than the taxed fuel when purchased at a marina? Looks the marinas have hefty profit margins. 😱

Charlie, the new filter is 10 micron. The old one reads T11 2128. I don't know what that means. I found it interesting that the fuel draining from the plug opening came from the top of the filter; the bottom was stopped up. The fuel in bottom of the filter came out after draining the housing after removing it from body. What does that say about removing the plug to drain off the water, etc.?

The guy who writes for "PassageMaker", Steve recommends two inline filters. I think he said a 10 micron followed by a 2 micron to protect the secondary filter as long as possible. I should reread that article.

Gene
 
Checked the secondary filter today. It was OK. Took the tug for a two hour cruise, everything OK. Max rpm under load still 3300 (where did my 75 rpm go?), max no load 4000. Next step, check tug tach against photo tach.

Gene
 
Hi Gene, I have been using diesel fuel a long time in the automotive environment. I have never heard of asphalt in the fuel. Could you elaborate further as to the source? Are you saying that it came from interior tank lining of a storage tank or from the fuel itself during manufacturing? I think I missed something there. Thanks.
 
Sam,

Alphalt is naturally present in diesel fuel in very fine particles, in solution. I believe part of the diesel aroma is due to the presence of asphalt. 🙂 I think the further refining process to produce gasoline removes all or most of the asphalt. I used to know more about all of this having lived in Texas for awhile and having chemistry professors who worked in the oil industry. :?

Anyway, these small particles, including bacteria, dirt, sand, etc., tend to come out of solution when fuel sits awhile. If they get stirred up by fuel sloshing around in the tank, they don't go back into solution, but are picked up by the fuel pump and caught in the filters. If they sit in a tank for a very long time they form a sludge which is a real mess.

I believe the automotive fuel has less problems because the fuel doesn't sit around. My first refueling was early in the season and who knows how long that fuel had been sitting in the marina's tank. And my second refueling was a couple of weeks later, the season had been open awhile; perhaps the marina had gotten a fresh batch of fuel and it stirred up the fall out in the tank, if any. It could have come from the fuel put in at the factory; it was several months old and had gone thru a lot of environment changes. Who knows what happened?

By the way, the "PassageMaker" article (Feb. 2007) I mentioned, by Steve C. D'Antonio, didn't advocate 2 micro filters in the primary filtration system. The magazine's editor did, but he was advocating 10 micron filters followed by a 2 micron filter. Fuel filtration is a topic where vigorous disagreement reigns.

I think the solution for the trailerable tugs is buy fuel at your local truckstop. It should be fresh. Then use it before the particulate matter falls out of solution.

Naturally, one is likely to have fuel sitting in the tank(s) for long periods. The R-21 EC tank can probably be pumped out and the fuel polished.
 
Wow, you learn something new every day. Thanks for the information. How many more filter changes will you have to go through to get it cleared up completely?
 
If I can find someone locally, I'll have the tank drained and either put in fresh fuel or polish what's there.

If that isn't possible, I'll keep changing filters. At $20+ a filter, draining the tank may be a better way to go. We'll see.

Gene
 
Does anyone know what the recommended maximum fuel storage time is? For example, if your boat sits for a year without being used, can you safely use the fuel in the tank or should you pump it out?
 
Currently, gasoline has about a ninety day storage life before problems start. That time can be extended somewhat by the use of stablizers. I've had neck (cervical) problems for many years, making riding my motorcycle an on and off activity. I've had periods where the stablized fuel has sat for six to nine months without a problem. Presently, the fuel in the bike is a year old. Stablizers don't really help with phase separation (a layer of water in the fuel), enhanced by ethanol in the gasoline, so I may have a problem this time. I'll see if there's a problem when I can ride again.

Diesel fuel has a much longer storage life. I believe a year is the figure I've heard most often. Since "they" haven't starting adding ethanol to diesel fuel, yet; we don't have to contend with its water absorbing problem. However, the "fall out" of the particles, I mentioned in a post above, is still a problem. And, diesel fuel can also become stale. To prevent that, or lessen it, fuel stablizers can be used.

I've never used stablizers in diesel fuel, but haven't let an engine sit longer than a month. Of course some of the fuel from refuelings accumulates and may be more than a year old, especially in larger fuel tanks; the Albin had two fifty gallon tanks. Haven't noticed any problems, performance wise. But, I'd bet my old Albin had sludge in the bottom of the fuel tanks.

Gene
 
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