R-27 Outboard: Weeping rust on bow thruster nut

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baz

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Subject: R-27 Outboard: Weeping rust on bow thruster nut

My boat was purchased Aug 16, 2017 and has been in salt water since then.

I have regular diver service for checking my under water zincs and hull and hardware condition.

Starting at around 3 months from when the boat was first placed in salt water the diver service has reported "weeping rust on the bow thruster nut".

I was told by RT during my purchasing activity that the new 2018 R-27 Outboard models no longer required zincs on the bow thruster. However, it seems there's some significant rusting taking place as evidenced by photos attached. My diver service has indicated I should ask Ranger Tugs for advice as this 'rusting' will eventually lead to a problem.

So I'll be asking RT, what can be done to arrest this issue from turning into a problem for me ? Is this issue something that is covered under the 1st yr warranty ?





 
I'm not sure what having an outboard has to do with not protecting a thruster housing with a sacrificial anode. Are you sure there isn't a aluminum anode mounted to the nose of the thruster gear housing? The rust looks like the washer is the wrong material. It almost looks like it is a carbon steel washer, or a poor grade stainless. I would pull the nut, washer and prop off to see what is going on. I would also call side-power and send them your pictures and ask about using an anode. I have talked to them in the past and find them very knowledgeable and helpful when it comes to their equipment.
 
Barry,
I would think this would be covered under the first year warranty...and now I am wondering if RT will fix this before they start building my boat one week from today. It sure looks like it could be a significant mess down the road, and something I would like to avoid.

JtheK
 
Our boat has been rescheduled for delivery, again, for May 20th. We have asked for the boat to be on the trailer when we arrive. This is something we will check carefully before the boat is put in the water. Thanks for the heads-up.
 
BB marine":kn529ip8 said:
I'm not sure what having an outboard has to do with not protecting a thruster housing with a sacrificial anode. Are you sure there isn't a aluminum anode mounted to the nose of the thruster gear housing? The rust looks like the washer is the wrong material. It almost looks like it is a carbon steel washer, or a poor grade stainless. I would pull the nut, washer and prop off to see what is going on. I would also call side-power and send them your pictures and ask about using an anode. I have talked to them in the past and find them very knowledgeable and helpful when it comes to their equipment.
Click to expand...

I was told in no uncertain terms that the bow thruster no longer requires an anode as was the case with the thruster assembly that was used previously on RT boats with bow thrusters. Obviously I was very pleased to hear this from RT as on my previous RT boats I replaced the bow thruster anode (cone shaped) on a regular basis to protect the metals in the thruster assemble; knowing otherwise I'd be subject to an expensive repair down the road.

I called RT for advice on this issue, as I probably should have done a few months ago when first being reported to me by my diver's service. Kenny (to my surprise) picked up Andrew's phone and we spoke about this (Kenny's voice is unlike Andrew's :lol: ). It is 100% correct that the bow thruster does not require an anode. RT has reached out to Lewmar about this and is awaiting for a response from them.
 
Anxious to hear the results of the query. I know my anode on the thruster gets consumed. Not sure what would be consumed in it's place if the anode wasn't there.

The gear leg is bronze or some other brass alloy. I don't think it would ever show rust. The Allen bolt in the pics looks ok, so I also wonder about the washer. Interesting mystery.

If not required on the bow thruster, is it required on the stern thruster still?
 
I agree with Brian. It looks like a carbon steel washer is in there disintegrating. Have the diver pull the bolt and bring up the corroding material to see what it is.
 
I didn't know that Ranger is using Lewmar thrusters. I thought they still used Side Power. Lewmar uses composite gear housings so that is why anodes are not needed.
 
I now have on hand a new Prop + Washer & Nut provided by RT & Lewmar under warranty.

I will have my Diver Service remove the old Prop/Washer/Nut and install the new items. Cost for doing this will be reimbursed. I hope this replacement resolves the weeping rust issue.

The Washer&Nut are very small and I hope the diver holds onto them carefully and does not drop either to the deep dark waters. 😱

My Diver service says the cost for doing this will be $95 for the 'dive' and $85 for removing the old prop, nut, washer & install new ones.

As an aside, I have also adopted to have shore power connected for only 24 hrs per week while moored at my marina.

RT has been very helpful in dealing with Lewmar and for obtaining the new parts.
 
I, too, got pictures and a report from my divers noting weeping rust on the Lewmar thrusters. I reported this and showed pictures to Ranger people at the Going North Seminar. They too were quick to point out the the new thrusters on my 2017 Cutwater 30 cb did not require anodes.I have a call in to Andrew on another matter so I’ll remind him of the rust and hope I’ll get the same response Baz got eventually. I recently got an email from Sam Bisset reminding those of us going on the Desolation Sound cruise to be sure to get our boats serviced and in good order. I reported what I was doing to comply. Sam responded “sounds good”. I guess there will be something else to talk about now. Bob
 
BobnDoc":3hbertkg said:
I, too, got pictures and a report from my divers noting weeping rust on the Lewmar thrusters. I reported this and showed pictures to Ranger people at the Going North Seminar. They too were quick to point out the the new thrusters on my 2017 Cutwater 30 cb did not require anodes.I have a call in to Andrew on another matter so I’ll remind him of the rust and hope I’ll get the same response Baz got eventually. I recently got an email from Sam Bisset reminding those of us going on the Desolation Sound cruise to be sure to get our boats serviced and in good order. I reported what I was doing to comply. Sam responded “sounds good”. I guess there will be something else to talk about now. Bob
Click to expand...

Hmmmm, this post disturbs me as I was thinking my issue was unique due to maybe the wrong washer/nut being installed. Now that you've posted your diver service is seeing weeping rust like mine opens up this issue to more than something peculiar to my boat and more importantly that 2018 R-27/OB and 2017 CW-30 are built/assembled in two different factories. Of course, a bad batch of washer/nuts could at play here.

If you moor your boat in salt water can you say where ?

I'm now of the opinion that I should place the washer/nut I have as a replacement from RT/Lewmar in a glass of salt water and see what happens. 😱

Thanks for posting and sharing. 😀
 
We are on the threshold for getting our R27-OB in the middle of July, so this conversation is important to us. We will be trailering our boat, so it won't be subject to the same intensity of electrolysis boats moored at marinas get, but it will be used mainly in saltwater and frequently moored at marinas for several days at a time. Over time, I suspect this can have its affects.

Baz, when you mentioned placing hardware fasteners in a glass of saltwater, I wondered if a lack of an electrical field might have a bearing on your test. Then I realized I know very little about that whole underwater environment: anodes, electrolysis, anodic, galvanic, white wire ground, green wire ground (bonding), neighboring boats, marina power, etc. So I googled "hot marina".

After sifting thru the "R" rated websites, I found this informative article that's still a little over my head in parts, but it still helps.

www.yachtsurvey.com/corrosion_in_marinas.htm

Bob & Kim
The Doghouse 2
 
Thanks Bob.... yes, this electrical issue is very complex for sure.

Yea,,, I was also thinking about the lack of an electrical field etc using the glass of salt water would not be replicating the same conditions having the washer/nut on the thruster's prop shaft and in the salt water.

Hmmmm, what to do here.

I think I will still use the salt water glass jar to understand how well the washer/nut will react being simply exposed to salt water without any electrical field present. Let's face it, even the SS items such as rails on our boats being exposed to the weather and salty air do show signs of rust and thus indicate the quality of the SS material they are made of.
 
Baz, you live close by you marina... take some non-metalic cord (tuna cord) and secure nut/washer with enough lead to drop it off your bow eyelet... same exposure you've been getting... Bob
 
The Doghouse 2":3sysnxxn said:
Baz, you live close by you marina... take some non-metalic cord (tuna cord) and secure nut/washer with enough lead to drop it off your bow eyelet... same exposure you've been getting... Bob
Click to expand...

My thoughts are simply that if the washer & nut start rusting in the jar of salt water that's a bad sign and therefore replacing the rusted washer/nut with the new ones is futile.

If the new washer/nut do not show signs of rusting in the jar I will use them for replacing the current rusting ones. Then if weeping rust occurs within a month or so then I will have to revisit this issue with RT/Lewmar for advice to see what the next steps will be to resolve this issue.

Lewmar had two solutions....

1) Wrong washer/nut installed that were not SS

2) Some electrical anomaly with the motor installation.... see photo

 
Hmmmm.... have been informed that no matter, using SS will not inhibit weeping rust. Thus for the foreseeable future the solution is to simply keep an eye open for the weeping rust and replace the washer & nut as required. This means for me the frequency will be around 6 months. My boat was delivered Aug 16 2017 and my diver service first reported the weeping rust on Dec 17. That's a 4 month period so I think 4 to 6 months the washer/nut will need to be replaced at same time as the underwater zincs are examined. I must admit, when told the bow thruster no longer needed a zinc I was thinking zero maintenance.... 😱 :shock: :? 🙁
 
It appears that Lewmar requires the battery installation to be strictly isolated to the thruster. I would look at the installation and confirm an isolation between any other batteries or grounds. I know in our Cutwater 26 the ground Yellow lead from the battery also goes to the bonding terminal strip. The engine battery,house battery and thruster battery are chain wired Neg side(ground). If this is the case with the R27 using the Lewmar, the shaft and washers are now your anode. The installation requires it to be completely isolated. An easy fix would be to have battery switches Pos and negative. When your not using the Thruster isolate it from the system by turning both switches off. Then inspect and see if this eliminated the Rusting. I would bet it does.
 
Thanks Brian. I wonder if what I posted in my last but one posting .... Re: 2) Some electrical anomaly with the motor installation.... see photo is an important electrical check for me to make ?

With an Email exchange with Andrew he told me the thruster is installed (electrically) correctly.
 
Hey Baz, Inresponse to your question re where my boat is moored, Like you I’m in the Edmonds Marina. Q dock, slip 9.
When I reported my rust to Andrew, he said the problem was just a rusting washer and I should take it up with the dealer (Matt at Bellingham Yachts).Right now I am asking them to fix other things higher on my priority list, but in due time....
Bob Gold
 
If indeed the thruster mechanism has been installed correctly and there's no other solution to stop the weeping rust, then this has to be a periodic maintenance chore and have the washer/nut replaced when weeping rust is seen. If left unattended the rust will be so severe that removal of the nut and washer could render the prop shaft unusable and it would also need replacing or even a more extensive repair job. If the rusting is left for too long the threads that the nut engages could be so damaged and mean no threads left to secure the prop in place.

Andrew has indicated he will will get get me the washer/nut specs so they can be ordered or at least I can convey that info to my diver service so they have the correct washer/nut on hand when they service my boat.
 
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