R23 D3 HP rating

[dhoyles]

I've been looking at your new R23 model and see that it's available with a 170 hp Volvo D3 stern drive or 200hp Yamaha outboard. I notice that the D3 is available in 4 hp ratings, 140, 170, 200 & 220, same engine, same weight. What is the reason that you went with a 170 when you could have 200 or 220 with no additional weight? Why would you use less hp with the Volvo then the Yamaha outboard? ( I'm sure there's a huge torque difference ).

Was the boat tested with all hp ratings of the D3 before settling on the 170? Is it that the additional cost and fuel burn don't provide added performance? Just wondering if the decision is based on economics or performance? Or, is there a difference in engine life, more hp = more heat and reduced hours of life? Making the same engine work harder.

Also, for the DPS stern drive, do you offer it in the OceanX version for additional saltwater corrosion protection?

Thanks

 

[sleepyboat]

I remember an old saying from my youth that “speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?’
The diesel is already a $10,000 upgrade and my guess would be that the extra 30 to 50 HP would be pricy.

 

[Irish Mist]

I think the more you work the diesel the less life you get from it.. You can really pull a lot of power from a diesel Just look at what they get from diesel trucks with just adding a chip... But they blow them up a lot.. I would prefer an old dry stack keel called slow reving engine that lasts forever.. Just makes sense to me the less it spins the longer the life..If you're after a speedier boat there are lots out there. But I guarantee no one has the factory support we get. They seem to know what they are doing at the hatching barn

 

[dhoyles]

All the D3's have the same rated max RPM of 4000 and same compression ratio of 16.5:1 from 140hp all the way up to the max 220hp so not sure how much extra stress is added to the engine. I'm sure there is a cost associated with the higher hp, but the cheapest time to get that extra hp is during initial purchase. The question is does the added cost equal added benefit?

Am I correct is assuming "ask the ranger factory" section is actually answered by factory reps? I'm new to the forum and not sure how it works. Thanks

 

[SGIDAVE]

Am I correct is assuming "ask the ranger factory" section is actually answered by factory reps? I'm new to the forum and not sure how it works. Thanks

Hello dhoyles,

Sadly you would be INcorrect to assume the factory actually replies to the threads in this forum. Looking back just now - at the last TWELVE posts in this forum, the factory has replied to TWO of the them. Those were the posts regarding the "Cummins 150 Exhaust Mixing Elbow" and "R-29CB Photo."

The factory misses out on a great opportunity for customer support when they don't respond to online forum posts. The online factory reply on the forum remains for others to view and benefit in the future. And...it's faster for the factory rep AND the customer to reply online than to field phone calls. Basic customer service stuff.

Best to CALL Ranger and talk to the person you need.

/dave

 

[Andrew Custis]

Dave,

I take that personal. We try very hard to answer every question from our owners and many times we read the "ask the factory questions" and people respond to what I consider a satisfactory response. We can certainly work on making this topic a reply only from the factory and the original poster which might be the way to go.

I do agree that if you require an immediate response that picking up the phone is probably best. We will continue to participate in the forum just as we have for the last ten years.

Now, to respond to the question about the Ranger 23. The main reason we do not offer an upgraded HP for the outboard or the stern drive is for two reasons. One, we made a commitment to Volvo and Yamaha to order a specific amount of engines which in turn helped us to keep the pricing down on the models and where we believe they need to be. Secondly, the boat performs very nicely with the 170 diesel and the 200 outboard. If we didn't feel that they would perform to everyone's expectations, we would not offer them. If you would like to personally speak with me about the engines and performance, I would welcome a phone call directly to my cell. (253)230-0727.

Thank you,

Andrew Custis
andrewcustis@rangertugs.com

 

[nzfisher]

I've been looking at your new R23 model and see that it's available with a 170 hp Volvo D3 stern drive or 200hp Yamaha outboard. I notice that the D3 is available in 4 hp ratings, 140, 170, 200 & 220, same engine, same weight. What is the reason that you went with a 170 when you could have 200 or 220 with no additional weight? Why would you use less hp with the Volvo then the Yamaha outboard? ( I'm sure there's a huge torque difference ).

Was the boat tested with all hp ratings of the D3 before settling on the 170? Is it that the additional cost and fuel burn don't provide added performance? Just wondering if the decision is based on economics or performance? Or, is there a difference in engine life, more hp = more heat and reduced hours of life? Making the same engine work harder.

Also, for the DPS stern drive, do you offer it in the OceanX version for additional saltwater corrosion protection?

Thanks

At the risk of ruffling feathers, unless there is some unusual reason to go for the diesel you will get more boating time/over repair maintenance time with the outboard. Having experienced both engine types the outboards are- by comparison to inboards in these small boats- trouble free. After they are worn out you get a new one and don't look back.

 

[Connerkip]

Hello Andrew,

There are times that someone has posted an "ask the factory" question and I too was interested, as too may be others, in the response. I do see at times tugnutters responding and not the factory. However, without the factory response I don't know if all of the tugnutters responses are correct, or one, or ? Also I don't know if the factory has read the question and not responded or agrees with previous tugnutter responses. It would be nice to have a factory response to support previous answers if nothing else.
Should the person need to call the factory for a response, I would then be out of the loop, as would any others following.

The factory support answers can be very important to those who follow Tugnuts.

Thanks for all you and the others do to keep us running smoothly.

 

[SGIDAVE]

Dave,

I take that personal. We try very hard to answer every question from our owners and many times we read the "ask the factory questions" and people respond to what I consider a satisfactory response. We can certainly work on making this topic a reply only from the factory and the original poster which might be the way to go.

I do agree that if you require an immediate response that picking up the phone is probably best. We will continue to participate in the forum just as we have for the last ten years.

Andrew Custis
andrewcustis@rangertugs.com

Hello Andrew,

Thanks for your response.

The original poster ask:

dhoyles wrote:
Am I correct is assuming "ask the ranger factory" section is actually answered by factory reps? I'm new to the forum and not sure how it works. Thanks

My reply was NOT meant to be 'personal' in any way...just an truthful reply. If I have mis-characterized Ranger Tug's rate of responding to questions directed to them on this forum, please forgive me. Anyone can look back at the last 10, 20, or 50 questions ask on the "Ask the Ranger Factory" forum and judge for themselves the level of factory interaction. It is what it is....

The OP joined the Tugnuts yesterday; you should know that the OVERALL level of customer service/support is OUTSTANDING for the Ranger Tug line of products. As you spend more time on this forum you will see repeated testimony to this effect. The isolated issue at hand now is an exception.

/dave

 

[Bruce Moore]

If I have mis-characterized Ranger Tug's rate of responding to questions directed to them on this forum, please forgive me. Anyone can look back at the last 10, 20, or 50 questions ask on the "Ask the Ranger Factory" forum and judge for themselves the level of factory interaction. It is what it is....
/dave

Yes, you can look back at the forum and count responses. But, you cannot assume that is a good measure of the level of factory interaction and/or responsiveness. I can assure you Andrew and his team are up to speed in that area. As a volunteer admin for the site, I make sure they are.

What you don't see is the number of issues/questions which are responded to directly, via phone or email, or the number of posts referred directly to dealers for resolution. The team is also aware of the many relevant solutions and ideas provided by boat owners who read the forum. You, Dave, are a good example of this crowd-sourced expertise.

These guys are incredibly busy. Responding to forum posts is not always the most expeditious path to support and resolution.

Cheers,

Bruce

 

[Red Raven]

I can't resist... Andrew, Kenny, Ivan, and Ronnie, are doing an incredible job keeping up with the huge amount of requests for their time. Having said that, with the growth of the company at some point they will need some additional resources. They are a very small team that is supporting a company that now has 6 factory locations. I just hope the company management realizes what an incredible resource they are are an how critical they are to the company's success. I have never seen anything like it! At some point (at which I am not an expert) they will need additional resources. I hope Andrew and the service team get the resources they need to continue the great work.

Thank you Andrew, Kenny, Ivan, and Ronnie for all your excellent support!

 

[Levitation]

Let me chime in that the factory, Andrew and Ron and others, set the standard in the marine business for product support.
Now let me opine that a 170 diesel in the 23 foot hull is more than enough for that style of boat. The R-25 of old has been excellent with 150 hp.
And don't jump to the conclusion that the 200 horsepower outboard is the answer to everything. The weight is out behind the boat. I would have to run both the diesel and the OB before making a statement but I suspect the diesel with the CG farther forward might ride better in sloppy conditions. And there is always the issue of ignition systems and salt water.
We will know a lot more about the R23 5 years from now.

 

[sheral]

If I have mis-characterized Ranger Tug's rate of responding to questions directed to them on this forum, please forgive me. Anyone can look back at the last 10, 20, or 50 questions ask on the "Ask the Ranger Factory" forum and judge for themselves the level of factory interaction. It is what it is....
/dave

Yes, you can look back at the forum and count responses. But, you cannot assume that is a good measure of the level of factory interaction and/or responsiveness. I can assure you Andrew and his team are up to speed in that area. As a volunteer admin for the site, I make sure they are.

What you don't see is the number of issues/questions which are responded to directly, via phone or email, or the number of posts referred directly to dealers for resolution. The team is also aware of the many relevant solutions and ideas provided by boat owners who read the forum. You, Dave, are a good example of this crowd-sourced expertise.

These guys are incredibly busy. Responding to forum posts is not always the most expeditious path to support and resolution.

Cheers,

Bruce

Just a suggestion, why not remove/alter or rename the title from ‘Ask the Ranger Factory’ to something else more accurate? Not trying to upset anyone but how is this part of the forum really any different from the other discussion area(s)? Again, not trying to be critical, I find the forum very helpful and would be quite lost without all the expertise available here.

 

[dhoyles]

Thanks to everyone who took the time to try to respond to my question and to Andrew from the factory. The intention of my question was not to stir the pot on factory support, from everything I've read Ranger Tugs is top notch.

Andrew said the reason the 170 was chosen was due to agreements and cost, however Ranger has 3 D3 versions at their disposal, the 150hp in the R-25, the 170hp in the R-23 and the 200hp in the R-27. My understanding from Volvo is these are all identical in size and connections. Although as stated, the R-23 performs nicely with the 170hp version, I wanted to know if one was tested by the factory with the 200hp version and did it yield any worth while performance improvements to justify the extra cost? With weight, displacement and RPM being the same, fuel burn might not be that much more. It's not that the extra power is needed, but sometimes nice to have available.

Since they chose a 200hp outboard having an inboard with the same rating seemed logical. I think I read/heard somewhere (can't find it now) that the outboard version could do close to 40mph but the inboard was around 34 or 35mph. Maybe using the D3 200 would even it up performance wise.

 

[jld]

On the Ranger Tugs website there is a link to a review of the R23 done by Waggoner Cruising Guide. The reviewer notes:

The Yamaha 200 sits all the way back on a swim step bracket freeing up plenty of space. A Volvo 170HP Diesel Duoprop sterndrive is an optional engine package for $10,000+, but I liked the performance of the Yamaha 200 and the amount of space it frees up. It is also quiet. At idle I barely heard it, and even at full WOT (30 knots), it purred quietly. We ran the boat at different power settings but were most surprised at the optimal cruise speed of about 23 knots burning 3 miles to the gallon; this design is fast as well as fuel-efficient

30 knots is about 35 mph. Probably plenty fast for most folks, I know it is for me. Of course, the Cutwater 24 with the 300 hp outboard would be even faster.

I think its a moot point to question the factory why they decided on the engines they selected, as these are what they are telling us are available for the boats.

Many of the other boating manufacturers, especially those using Yamaha outboards, have performance bulletins posted on-line. I wish the manufacturer would also do this for the R23 and C24.

Jim

 

[CAPTCRUNCH]

Back to the original question of why RT chose the 170HP D3 instead of a higher-power version for the R23, I wonder if the phase-in of the US EPA emission standards for small diesels and Volvo's reported decision to stop offering 5-cylinder diesels in cars mean that the D3 family is almost extinct. If I understand the EPA rules correctly, there are some circumstances where engine manufacturers have been allowed to continue selling a limited number of certain engines to certain buyers (such as RT) past the published deadlines for compliance. If so, RT may have gotten some D3's at close-out prices and be using the bigger ones in the bigger boats. As I read Volvo's literature [http://www.volvopenta.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/Penta/Engine%20range/Marine%20Leisure/Engine_range.pdf] it offers recreational marine diesels that meet the Tier 2 and 3 standards but nothing for the next levels. Of course, any or all of this could be wrong.

 

[stwendl]

Whenever a boat is offered with multiple engine choices it would be a big gamble to commit to a certain number of engines as you don't know how many you will be selling. The r23 is attractive to owners who don't want diesel or want more space than the 21

But marketing is a tough business to be guessing want people will buy and how many units. So far it looks like RT did it right.